My 131 abarth (never ending) story - 2017 season updates

[miro-1980]

Now the news on 131 abarth :

I have managed ( following Guys advise ) to identify a reliable supplier of original Gr 4 131 abarth parts.

Here are new additions :

1/ Gr.4 rear ATE brake calipers ( 2x 38mm)

Gr 4 ATE 2X38 steel calipers.jpg (20.02 KiB) Viewed 11160 times

2/ Gr 4 rear Brembo hand brake calipers ( reportedly used in some Ducato motorcycle models / anybody knows any details?)
( this is on order as these calipers are quite rare !)

Gr 4 rear hand brake calipers .jpg (15.49 KiB) Viewed 11160 times

3/ Hand brake calipers mounting brackets

Gr 4 mounting brackets for hand brake rear Brembo calipers .jpg (25.57 KiB) Viewed 11160 times

4/ Gr 4 Rear disks 252 mm ( from my own stock)

Gr 4 rear disks 252.jpg (37.33 KiB) Viewed 11160 times

5/ Gr 4 steering rods

front steering rods .jpg (8.89 KiB) Viewed 11160 times

6/ Gr 4 fast wiper mechanism

Gr 4 fast wiper mechanism .jpg (32.55 KiB) Viewed 11159 times

7/ steering damper

steering damper .jpg (7.77 KiB) Viewed 11159 times

8/ Gr 4 sway bar (24mm diameter !) no picture though

This will allow us to put together the from suspension to all gr 4 state as well as get the brakes closed to FIA homologation.

I have given up on replacing the steering rack to 2.8 (from current 3.2) lock-to-lock . The prie od 1500 euro is prohibitive.

I have also planned to take off the vacuum booster and replace it with two pumps ( as per original gr 4 construction, but I am having second thoughts ...


Some parts to complete this stage we already have are pictured below:

- Gr 4 ATE 2x48 front calipers

GHr 4 ATE 2x 48 front alloy calipers .jpg (36.55 KiB) Viewed 11159 times

- reaction rods

reaction rods .jpg (23.84 KiB) Viewed 11159 times

- reaction rods front mounts

reacion rods mounts .jpg (29.02 KiB) Viewed 11159 times

- Gr 4 front Bilstein shocks

front bilstein shocks.jpg (21.87 KiB) Viewed 11159 times

- Re worked ATE Ferrari 360 GT disks

RE-worked ATE disks ( for ferrari 360 GT) .jpg (122.38 KiB) Viewed 11159 times

And finally we have found a Torsen LSD and hope it fits the abarth diff...

Torsen LSD .jpg (67.39 KiB) Viewed 11159 times

Hope this will allow us to finally get the full abarth setup ( or as close to it as possible)

Wish us luck ...

Miro

[miro-1980]

Guy,

I have obtained the right to use the images and portions of the text in the WRC magazine article.

Here they are :

Part of the WR Ccover.jpg (106.9 KiB) Viewed 11138 times

title picture 1.JPG (62.47 KiB) Viewed 11138 times

visit to UK.JPG (41.37 KiB) Viewed 11138 times

and this is the text devoted to Guy Croft :
(...learning foreign languages has its advantages !)

Dowiedziałem się, że w Anglii istnieje niejaki Guy Croft, który ma doświadczenie z tymi silnikami. Mało tego – okazało się, że to najwyższej klasy specjalista, który pisze książki na temat tych samochodów, jest byłym mechanikiem w F1 i tam zajmował się analizą awarii silników. To jedyny znany mi mechanik projektujący własne tłoki, więc można o nim powiedzieć inżynier-konstruktor z prawdziwego zdarzenia. Szybko udało mi się wstąpić do ekskluzywnego klubu, jakim jest forum dyskusyjne na jego stronie, i tam zacząłem nawiązywać z nim bliższy kontakt oraz zdobywać wiedzę. Wokół Guya Crofta zgromadziło się sporo osób, które się znają na temacie, mają fachową wiedzę, wiele kontaktów, dostęp do części i sami posiadają ciekawe rodzynki w garażach. Są też rozmaite inne fora, jak 131mira_ ori.com, które także skupiają takich ludzi. Prawdziwą kopalnią wiedzy technicznej, od której w zasadzie należałoby zacząć zdobywanie wiedzy na temat Fiata 131, jest jednak najnowsze wydanie książki Crofta. Aż dziw bierze, że tak dogłębnie dzieli się on swoją specjalistyczną wiedzą, którą przecież zarabia na chleb. To właśnie u Crofta zostałem szybko „naprostowany”, że w przerabianiu silnika niekoniecznie chodzi o to, żeby założyć ostre wałki i duże gaźniki. Rezerwy tkwią gdzie indziej, więc zapadła decyzja, że Brytyjczyk przygotuje dla mnie zupełnie nowy silnik do 131. Kupiłem standardowy motor, dołożyłem głowicę z ośmioma dużymi zaworami i zawiozłem bezpośrednio do Lincoln w Anglii. Tam obejrzałem, w jaki sposób Croft pracuje, przeprowadził też ze mną szczegółowy wywiad na temat tego, jak będzie wykorzystywany samochód. Na podstawie tych informacji zaproponował mi modyfikację typu „stage 2”, która obejmuje zmiany w zakresie „do 200 KM”. Po zakończeniu prac silnik tra_ ł na szczegółowe badanie w hamowni do instytutu technologicznego w Cork w Irlandii. Wynik to 185 KM oraz doskonały moment obrotowy, który trzyma stały, wysoki poziom ponad 200 Nm, dostępny od 4 tys. obrotów do 6500 obr./min. Taka charakterystyka daje ogromną frajdę z jazdy, bo samochód ciągnie niemal w każdym momencie. Co więcej, motor jest w stanie dokręcić się do niemal 10 tys.! Założony w tej chwili ogranicznik zatrzymuje wskazówkę obrotomierza na 8,5 tys., bo nie ma potrzeby, aby przekraczać tę wartość (shift light zapala się przy 8 tys.).

M

[TomLouwrier]

hi Miro, good to see you back.

.learning foreign languages has its advantages !

Using a well known online translating service does help a bit too :-p
It's a very nice article, by the way.

regards
Tom

[miro-1980]

Tom,

Thanks,


As you may have seen (in recent posts) I am back to the issue of brakes, Hopefully this time we will be able to put an end to this , provided we can find the Brembo hand brake caliper from Ducati motorcycle ...

Miro

[Guy Croft]

RU going to translate it for Crofty then Mr President or do I have to ring Julia?

G

[miro-1980]

Master Croft , Sir.

Your wish is my command : Here it is.

I learned that there is a guy England named Guy Croft who has experience with these engines. It turned out he is the highest class specialist who writes books on these vehicles, is a former F-1 engineer who worked on engine failure analysis. He is a true engine-builder/designer who designs his own pistons. Soon enough I was able to join his exclusive club – the GCRE forum and this is how I got to know Guy and learned from him. Guy managed to gather around him a group of people with expert knowledge of classic Italian cars, have access to parts as well as have real jewels in their garages. There are also fora which are specifically devoted to 131 like - like 131mirafiori.com - where you can meet people with knowledge on Fiat 131. However, the real bible of in depth technical knowledge , a must for all 131 mechanics is the newest edition Cuy Groft book on Fiat /Lancia DOHC engines. It is amazing that in this book Guy Croft really shares trade secrets of DOHC building- giving away his technical and practical knowledge of these engines, which is his business and livelihood. I was quickly “straightened” by Guy and learned that building a sports DOHC engine is not reduced to installation of "big bore carburetors" and “sharp “ camshafts" as these engines reserves are elsewhere. I quickly made a decision that I want Guy to build the new engine for me. I bought a standard 2 litre D0HC donor engine, loaded up a large valve head I had and drove to Lincoln, UK. On site I saw how he works. Guy debriefed my on my driving experience, sports plans to understand what I need this engine for. On the basis of this interview Guy proposed Stage III engine. After completion of the work engine was sent for dyno testing Cork Institute of Technology in Ireland where it was tested. Result was 185 bhp and excellent torque, which is practically constant 200 Nm + , available from 4 000 to 6500 rpm. Such engine characteristics give me full power in full RMP range. What is more it can rev up to 10 000 RPM! Because the power and torque is available in such wide and relatively low RPM range, I have installed a REV limiter cutting in at 8500 and the shift light that goes on at 8000.

Miro

[miro-1980]

Guy,

Some pictures of my 124 spider work.

It turned out the engine was never worked on before and the head was never taken off. All proved to be in quite good condition. We did not take the engine apart, as the car is really a cruiser not a sports car. We only took the head off , cleaned it, disassembled the valve train , cleaned it and readjusted. Two exhaust valves had to be replaced. The cams' oil sealers were replaced as well.
The inlet manifold and the head ports were retouched.

PS: Robert: my new mechanic was impressed by the engine bolt set.
Never seen a set like this. I think he will never use anything else.

Miro

See some pictures:

Before and after

Before

PIC00431.JPG (44.68 KiB) Viewed 11195 times

After

PIC00441.JPG (56.43 KiB) Viewed 11195 times

Goetz head gasket (a bit thinner)

PIC00442.JPG (79.18 KiB) Viewed 11195 times

view with gasket

PIC00443.JPG (55.85 KiB) Viewed 11195 times

before ...

PIC00432.JPG (41.89 KiB) Viewed 11195 times

Miro

[Guy Croft]

Thank you very much for the translation Miro! Thank you also for the kind words about my work.

Nice to see the Spider pics, hope it came together well.

I can't get those head gaskets in the UK - pm me if you can supply please?

Thanks,

G

[miro-1980]

Well , the 124 spider seems to be done >

Few more engine pictures:

As you will see the radiator needs replacement !

But the final result seems OK !

[Guy Croft]

Stunna!

GC

[Guy Croft]

Miro - just been talking to Sandro who found equivalent to your head gasket.

UNFORTUNATELY....

as we talked it became clear your Goetze head gasket is WRONG for your 124 engine application, the coolant port orientation is for a later reversed-port type head. The large coolant holes need to be on the exhaust side.

Needs to come apart again, that engine may suffer detonation.

Sorry,

G

[miro-1980]

Guy ,

When I looked at the Goetz catalog I found that the proper Goetz gasket for the '80 124 spider is Goetz 21201B.

Goetz for 124 spider .jpg (33.43 KiB) Viewed 10966 times

If a wrong gasket was applied my mechanic is already dead !

compare .jpg (48.73 KiB) Viewed 10966 times

I will see him tomorrow and will know if this was at just a picture of a wrong gasket or if this gasket was actually applied.

Miro

PS: I would be enormously surprised and greatly disappointed, though I do not expect he could have made such a rudimentary mistake. He may have taken a picture of what he had on hand and not what he actually installed.

I will leave my gun home (LOL) for the time being ...

Will report as soon as know.

M

[Guy Croft]

well, fingers crossed,

the one shown on the block is either an 8v reversed port design (as Delta) with 6 oil feeds or a 16v one with additional oil holes drilled (see photo), either way its coolant ports are wrong. Can't really tell about the 'drilling' from the photo, maybe it's the grey block deck visible thru the oil feed hole.

G

[miro-1980]

False alarm!

As I suspected the pictures were for "generic" information.

Robert has a small supply of NOS Goetz 21201B (European stock # 30-023288-10) gaskets for this very engine:

Goetz 2021B .jpg (17.39 KiB) Viewed 10924 times

As a good friend I was a beneficiary of one...

So all is OK. Thanks for alerting me to a potential problem, anyway.

Miro

PS: The car drives like new , or maybe better. Robert has replaced my red Koni with adjustable yellow Koni shocks on the front and Bilstein gas shocks in the rear. The car is a bit stiffer but equally comfortable as before. This has leveled the car (previously its tail was like a tail of a duck - up int he air) ). The car no longer nose dives when braking and takes curves like a real sports car. *(1" spacers were added on the wheels , and the car curve handling improved greatly). Robert also adjusted my rear brakes regulator slightly allowing me to brake more offensively in the curves without risking a spin.: Love the how it handles now !

The "targa" hard top is great. Actually, with the front roof panels off it feels very much like a convertible , except there is zero back air pressure. Pure fun. Also with a roll bar I feel much safer.

The engine keeps 85 deg. temperature and runs perfectly. I have not tested it "full out" , but it appears to rev up quicker , and have more torque.

I will have some great fun with the Spider waiting for Robert to do my Abarth brakes and install the front Abarth suspension on my 131. The time waiting for 131 will give me more opportunity to drive the Spider, which was driven only 3 or 4 times last year.

Can't wait for taking it for a vintage track event next weekend and a Fiat/Abarth event in July taking place in three countries (Poland, Germany and Czech Republic on curly mountain roads).

( Vary happy ) M

[Guy Croft]

that is good news!

G