Race Engine Forum UK

Hi Everyone,

I'm looking for an Abarth 16 Valve head as used in the Lancia Beta Group 4 Rally cars. They certainly look the same as the ones used in the 124 Abarth Rally Group 4s, but I'm not sure if there were any subtle differences. The 124 heads I believe are referred to as a 232 type? I'm also interested if anyone knows which blocks the Group 4 Beta Coupes ran. They were prepared by Lancia Corse as opposed to Abarth, but does this mean they ran the Lancia 828AC1000 block or the Fiat 132AC4000? I guess the info may be in the homologation papers?

thank you,

Steve M

P.S. Congratulations on the website!!! Just fantastic!

Hello Steve,

I am so glad you like the new site, all credit to DB - I am thrilled with it too.

I'm going to try and help you .. I may not .. BUT however much you know please be aware I using your post as a vehicle am writing here for everyone.

You may know of course that that type head is incredibly sought after, I know people who have routinely paid ‚£8000. And I must admit I don't trade in these things, I'm not into dealing. But - if you are interested I have a client with a complete fuel injected 2 liter 16v Gp 4 Abarth works engine - currently fitted in a South African Works Team Lancia Monte Carlo for sale, he is in South Africa and I can vouch personally for his integrity.
This would be I think broadly the same motor as for the Beta. I can give you his direct e mail but I told him ages ago his engine should not be sold for less than the equivalent of ‚£12,000. I'm sorry but that is what it is worth and as for splitting the unit, no chance, you don't don't do that with these. All these works units are as valuable as Chippendale furniture. FWIW I sold an ex African Safari Rally EVO2 037 engine 11 years ago for ‚£8000.

(GC note: I always say this - because I get a lot of mail from people who say 'yes I know all that..' which makes me smile because - do they?mostly they have never so much as touched one, and then you never hear from them again, nuff said.. When I sold my Gp3 124 Abarth Spider in 1991 for ‚£8000 no-one outside Italy knew what it was, now you cannot buy one near as good as mine for less than ‚£20,000)

As far as buying just a head I do not currently know of one for sale on its own from anyone of repute. When u buy you must get the valves and springs, collets, caps, everything - if in doubt for please check everything by me before you hand over any cash. Guys like Guiseppe Volta in Italy do have stockpiles of things like this but they make their sole living out of selling what they have left, so don't expect favours. Especially if your name's Volta - famous for his works car preparation - sitting on a pile of stuff like that means you don't need to work too hard to sell it - the world comes to you.

You also need cams and camboxes complete with cam caps or you cannot complete the build - some guys make a living out of holding things back - what happens then is that less reputable than Guiseppe who have this rare stuff will then hold you to ransom because they know you are missing a part, I see this happen, ‚£1300 for an 037 oil filter housing eg.

The Gp4 Abarth 16v heads as far as I know having worked on more than most (037 Evo 1 and 2, 131 16v) - are all the same, though there are differences in cam oiling and cam type and some modest differences in cooling galleries. They will offer up to the 131 type production block, though of course with different pistons. I mention this merely in passing, because as soon as you buy one of these exceptional, beautiful heads you must first give it a complete crack check & overhaul and then sit down and work out what else you need before building anythng, head included. An engine of this type needs the most careful estimation and dry-build.

GC

Hi steve,

I've got a 124 spider abarth 16v with the engine you're looking for, and I'm also searching for camcarriers for a second 16v engine that i want to mount on my competition seat FU.

If, in your search, you actually come across with camcarriers for that engine, I'd be extremely grateful if you could give me some head up.

thank you

Lgomes

PS: Below are photos of the engines and my Seat FU

Hi,


your car was in my city, Vigo. The car is a Seat 124 FL not a FU, the FU is a bit different. The FU have four lights.


A photo of a oficial Seat FU (about 1.972-73)





Regards,

Alex.

Hi Igomes

The 232 engine you have is fuel injected.
Can you post some pictures with details ?
Also can you inform me about the metal base which mounts the Kugelfischer pump onto the block ?

Thanks
Achilleas