Correct oil filter!
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Correct oil filter!
I have just bought a filter for a 130TC.
My local automotive spares shop has identified the filter from his catalogue and has supplied a 'pbr BC-1343' (made in Spain)
I am concerned as it is some-what smaller than the currently fitted ' FRAM PH 2857A'
The return holes are smaller and their are less of them, the volume of the filter appears less, that aside it is a good fit?
Am i being too cautious?
Shoud i use the new filter?
Steve
My local automotive spares shop has identified the filter from his catalogue and has supplied a 'pbr BC-1343' (made in Spain)
I am concerned as it is some-what smaller than the currently fitted ' FRAM PH 2857A'
The return holes are smaller and their are less of them, the volume of the filter appears less, that aside it is a good fit?
Am i being too cautious?
Shoud i use the new filter?
Steve
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Steve, hi
no-one else picking up this query so here's GC.
If the filter is one listed for your 130TC it will be fine. There is actually huge flow capacity and % entrapment even on quite small filters, Renault engines having some of the 'dinkiest' ones around, so if they got it wrong but it's still 75% of the physical size of the OEM one and the 3/4UNF centre thread is right you're going to be OK. Make sure it has the anti-syphon valve in the top. If in doubt post a photo of the top section and I'll show you.
GC
no-one else picking up this query so here's GC.
If the filter is one listed for your 130TC it will be fine. There is actually huge flow capacity and % entrapment even on quite small filters, Renault engines having some of the 'dinkiest' ones around, so if they got it wrong but it's still 75% of the physical size of the OEM one and the 3/4UNF centre thread is right you're going to be OK. Make sure it has the anti-syphon valve in the top. If in doubt post a photo of the top section and I'll show you.
GC
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Fram 2857A is for the Tipo 16v amongst others.
There was 4 oil filters that covered the whole Fiat engine range for many years, and as far as iam aware, still is. The 131/130 filter is longer and thinner, and the one you have Steve will be fine. As Guy says, all you need to be worried about, is to make sure the oil filter has a return valve.
Andy.
There was 4 oil filters that covered the whole Fiat engine range for many years, and as far as iam aware, still is. The 131/130 filter is longer and thinner, and the one you have Steve will be fine. As Guy says, all you need to be worried about, is to make sure the oil filter has a return valve.
Andy.
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The anti-drain valve (or anti-syphon) is the nitrile rubber flap under the 'in' holes (the array of small holes).
The valve in the bottom is a bypass valve - all canister filters have them. It is there to allow oil to bypass the element when thick and cold, otherwise the element would rupture. It also allows oil to bypass when the element is so full of debris that it won't flow at all. There are race filters available with no bypass but to be honest I have never seen a problem from having it there. Engines with no bypass generally need pre-heating prior to start up.
The inference is clear. Always allow an engine a generous warm-up period before putting it under much load, and change the filter religiously.
GC
The valve in the bottom is a bypass valve - all canister filters have them. It is there to allow oil to bypass the element when thick and cold, otherwise the element would rupture. It also allows oil to bypass when the element is so full of debris that it won't flow at all. There are race filters available with no bypass but to be honest I have never seen a problem from having it there. Engines with no bypass generally need pre-heating prior to start up.
The inference is clear. Always allow an engine a generous warm-up period before putting it under much load, and change the filter religiously.
GC
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I have not been changing them half that time, but i to did not know such a devise was inside.
I am going to show off my new-found knowledge next time i'm in my friends Fiat garage.
I wonder how many of them know it exists!
In a good way, i feel like i'm back at school on here!
Regards
Tom
I am going to show off my new-found knowledge next time i'm in my friends Fiat garage.
I wonder how many of them know it exists!
In a good way, i feel like i'm back at school on here!
Regards
Tom
White mk1 uno t
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Well, you're all very kind in saying that!
But often I have to check the info I present by way of reply, via internet search, phone calls, manuals etc., to have a reasonable certainty that what I am saying is OK/right. Sure I often think, 'I know about that..', but then I stop and say to myself 'Guy, are you sure..?' i try to be accurate but I'd be the 1st to admit there are gaping holes in my knowledge. C'est la vie I guess. You never stop learning.
GC
But often I have to check the info I present by way of reply, via internet search, phone calls, manuals etc., to have a reasonable certainty that what I am saying is OK/right. Sure I often think, 'I know about that..', but then I stop and say to myself 'Guy, are you sure..?' i try to be accurate but I'd be the 1st to admit there are gaping holes in my knowledge. C'est la vie I guess. You never stop learning.
GC
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Re: Correct oil filter!
To quote Guy:
"... There is actually huge flow capacity and % entrapment even on quite small filters, Renault engines having some of the 'dinkiest' ones around... "
That's reassuring to me, as I've got a Fiat TC in a 'special' and there's very little clearance between the filter housing and the chassis.
I used to have a Mocal take-off plate (part no TOP01) and remote filter housing, but I've ditched that because I got fed up with it leaking, even with new seals and almost zero incline, so I decided I'd take a look around for a nice small filter to use in it's place.
My findings so far might be of relevance to anyone fitting a Fiat TC into a racer/kit car/special with similar clearance issues due to the oil filter.
So far, I've found that the Coopers Z501 (aka FT6344) at 96mm wide x 72mm high, although shorter than the official Fiat filter, is still slightly too long for my application.
I took note of Guy's comment above and tried a Renault 4 filter (WIX WL7064) which is 74mm wide and 58mm high.
The renault filter fits easily as it is so short, but it concerns me that it is too small to do the job (although an online aquaintence has assured me that the Alpine A110 V6 with around 150BHP uses exactly the same filter, I've not been able to confirm that yet though).
Does anyone know of any filter between the height of the WL7064 and the Z501 filters (i.e. 60-70mm) that is still 3/4" UNF 16TPI and with the oil seal size within tolerance for the Fiat TCs?
Or if not, has anyone else used the tiny WL7064 filter and found it suitable?
Any other advice welcome, such as whether it means more frequent servicing perhaps?
Thanks!
"... There is actually huge flow capacity and % entrapment even on quite small filters, Renault engines having some of the 'dinkiest' ones around... "
That's reassuring to me, as I've got a Fiat TC in a 'special' and there's very little clearance between the filter housing and the chassis.
I used to have a Mocal take-off plate (part no TOP01) and remote filter housing, but I've ditched that because I got fed up with it leaking, even with new seals and almost zero incline, so I decided I'd take a look around for a nice small filter to use in it's place.
My findings so far might be of relevance to anyone fitting a Fiat TC into a racer/kit car/special with similar clearance issues due to the oil filter.
So far, I've found that the Coopers Z501 (aka FT6344) at 96mm wide x 72mm high, although shorter than the official Fiat filter, is still slightly too long for my application.
I took note of Guy's comment above and tried a Renault 4 filter (WIX WL7064) which is 74mm wide and 58mm high.
The renault filter fits easily as it is so short, but it concerns me that it is too small to do the job (although an online aquaintence has assured me that the Alpine A110 V6 with around 150BHP uses exactly the same filter, I've not been able to confirm that yet though).
Does anyone know of any filter between the height of the WL7064 and the Z501 filters (i.e. 60-70mm) that is still 3/4" UNF 16TPI and with the oil seal size within tolerance for the Fiat TCs?
Or if not, has anyone else used the tiny WL7064 filter and found it suitable?
Any other advice welcome, such as whether it means more frequent servicing perhaps?
Thanks!
GC_42
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Re: Correct oil filter!
if it's this one it's not actually that small. Years ago I used something equally small on full race Lancia Montecarlo engines because of a similar space problem, likely from the same Renault R5 source.
http://cn.oemol.com/oem/en_oem_detail/2 ... 064/*.html
How big the filter is determines how much crud it will hold and the smaller so the sooner the flowrate will start dropping and what you don't want is the relief valve opening because of that and unfiltered oil being allowed to circulate round the engine (which is what happens).
But clean-build engines with decent oil maintenance don't suffer from that in my exp and if you change it - as one should - every 5-6000 miles I am sure you will be OK.
G
http://cn.oemol.com/oem/en_oem_detail/2 ... 064/*.html
How big the filter is determines how much crud it will hold and the smaller so the sooner the flowrate will start dropping and what you don't want is the relief valve opening because of that and unfiltered oil being allowed to circulate round the engine (which is what happens).
But clean-build engines with decent oil maintenance don't suffer from that in my exp and if you change it - as one should - every 5-6000 miles I am sure you will be OK.
G
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Re: Correct oil filter!
Thanks Guy for the reassurance. I give my engine a service with Castrol GTX 15/40 semi-synthetic every year, and never gets near 5,000 miles per year, so it sounds like I was just being over-cautious.
I'll stick with the little WIX 58mm high filter and regular servicing then, thanks for the advice.
By the way, it does also have a non-return valve too for anyone else wondering about it.
I'll stick with the little WIX 58mm high filter and regular servicing then, thanks for the advice.
By the way, it does also have a non-return valve too for anyone else wondering about it.
GC_42
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Re: Correct oil filter!
I have recently found Mann german made filters with a double anti-drain valve that I am now using.
I have read some in depth testing articles regarding the quality of filters. I will try and find the article with the permission of Guy.
They investigated every detail of many filters. Very interesting read.
GC note: Kind of Chris to check with me but I won't permit its publication here because it is not a substantiable industry-level report. Sorry. I have edited out a ref here to a major filter manufacturer. I suggest anyone who wants to read the article pm's Chris.
I have read some in depth testing articles regarding the quality of filters. I will try and find the article with the permission of Guy.
They investigated every detail of many filters. Very interesting read.
GC note: Kind of Chris to check with me but I won't permit its publication here because it is not a substantiable industry-level report. Sorry. I have edited out a ref here to a major filter manufacturer. I suggest anyone who wants to read the article pm's Chris.
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Re: Correct oil filter!
Further info on suitable 'shorter than Fiat standard' filters with 3/4" UNF-16TPI thread and with a sealing ring diameter suitable for the Fiat TCs:
A friend kindly donated a genuine Ford Sierra 2WD Cosworth "EFL298" filter for me to try; These are very easy to find (although don't confuse with the Cosworth EFL90 filter which is much longer) and do indeed have the correct thread, I contacted Motorcraft to verify.
I trial-fitted one (had to remove the oil filter housing from the block on my tight installation) and I can report that it spins on easily, and the sealing ring is an excellent fit.
However, for those with very tight clearances for the oil filter, they are unfortunately slightly longer than the Cooper Z501 at 96mm wide x 74mm high, although advertised as 70mm high.
Still an option for most TC owners though, and should be decent quality I would have thought as genuine OEM part for a Cosworth.
A friend kindly donated a genuine Ford Sierra 2WD Cosworth "EFL298" filter for me to try; These are very easy to find (although don't confuse with the Cosworth EFL90 filter which is much longer) and do indeed have the correct thread, I contacted Motorcraft to verify.
I trial-fitted one (had to remove the oil filter housing from the block on my tight installation) and I can report that it spins on easily, and the sealing ring is an excellent fit.
However, for those with very tight clearances for the oil filter, they are unfortunately slightly longer than the Cooper Z501 at 96mm wide x 74mm high, although advertised as 70mm high.
Still an option for most TC owners though, and should be decent quality I would have thought as genuine OEM part for a Cosworth.
GC_42
Re: Correct oil filter!
The Sierra cosworth filter is actually the same size as the filter fitted to the Beta Volumex engine. WIX do a filter of the same dimensions (WL7168) again advertised as 70mm high but in reality including the seal about 73 or 74mm. I don't know what the quality is like but they seem well made and have a anti drain valve
Alan
Alan
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