Lancia Beta 2.0 Fuel Pump

HFStuart · Post by **HFStuart** » February 11th, 2007, 10:22 pm

The engine is going back in my Spider in the next couple of weeks. Before it goes in I'm going to replace the fuel lines as they are either corroded or perished. At the same time I'd like to replace the pump with an electric one.

The engine is a standard 2.0 TC and will be for UK road use only, I might go for twin Webers later but for the moment it's on the standard twin choke downdraft. I know little about fuel supply so:

1. Do I have to mount the pump close to the tank and low down or can I put it somewhere convenient in the engine bay ?
2. Do I need a pressure regulator or can I rely on the float chamber valve and the return line from the carb ?
3. What pump would you recommend for this application ?

Many thanks
Stuart

1969race125 · Post by **1969race125** » February 12th, 2007, 3:33 am

If you think you might go for twin Webers at some stage, then you might as well set up the electric pump appropriately now.

In my experience, that means setting the pump as close as possible to the fuel tank outlet (so the pump is "pushing" instead of "pulling") and including a regulator somewhere handy in the engine bay, where the line splits to feed the carbs.

For the pump itself, Webers prefer high-flow low-pressure pumps in my experience. In terms of flow rate, a good guide is to figure out what your maximum likely instantaneous fuel consumption is likely to be, and then double that figure (to account for pushing the fuel through the lines against the car's acceleration, and an additional comfort margin). As a conservative guess, if you open full-throttle up a steep hill while towing a heavy trailer, you might see an instantaneous consumption around 80 litres per 100km. If you were travelling 100km/hr at the time, that implies a required flow of 80 litres per hour. Doubling this gives a required pump flow rate of 160 litres per hour.

This is quite conservative though, and I expect a pump delivering 100-150 litres per hour would be more than sufficient for a standard road set-up.

Andrew

16valvole · Post by **16valvole** » February 12th, 2007, 9:54 am

1) You can put the pump in the trunk or engine bay, this will be ok.
2) You need a pump of the correct pressure for your carbs, return lines are in fact not needed.
3)I think a facet solid state pump for carburettors will be the best choice.

sumplug · Post by **sumplug** » February 12th, 2007, 10:34 am

Pump should be as close to or in the tank as possible to eliminate airation of the fuel. the difference of fuel pressure "pushing" and "pulling" is quite marked. Think also a pump under bonnet getting hot is not a good idea. Mount the regulator so it does not sit lower then the carb[s]. Again eliminating airation. Use aeroquip or equivalent that meets PSI standard.

Andy.

Post by **Guy Croft** » February 13th, 2007, 10:06 am

For your setup my recommendation for pump would be Facet Silver Top interrupter type, boot mounted (yes, quite right, pushing - pulling can cause fuel boiling in the lines at altitude on hot days) fitted on little rubber isolator mounts (in the kit from Webcon or FSE, unions too), fed by heavy duty cabling via ignition actuated relay, no fuel regulator needed, but get an in-line filter (Purolator do a nice little one, again FSE have them).
Don't (because it always happens) buy a Silver Top Competition spec or worse a Red Top! Too muhc pressure for your application.

Anyone know (is it?) Mitsuba pumps (or something like that?) - low pressure high flow. Also interested to hear of other good pumps for carb apps.

GC

HFStuart · Post by **HFStuart** » February 13th, 2007, 7:59 pm

Guy,

Thanks for that.

A very helpful chap down in Watford suggested a 'Huco' pump for carbs. The specs were only 1.4 psi but 120L/hr capacity when using 8mm pipework. He also said that because it was low pressure it was perfectly happy under the bonnet suckig the petrol through.

I can mail you the link if you like ?

Stuart

1969race125 · Post by **1969race125** » February 20th, 2007, 8:00 pm

Guy Croft wrote: Anyone know (is it?) Mitsuba pumps (or something like that?) - low pressure high flow. Also interested to hear of other good pumps for carb apps.

GC

In a race application, I have had great success with a Carter rotary vane pump. The Carter pump was chosen after much experimentation and lack of success with other models. It delivers only 4psi, but at a flow rate of 100 US gallons per hour (about 380 litres per hour). This is clearly too much for a road application, but is a perfect match for my high-demand race carb set-up (twin 45 DHLA, high-comp NA 8V, dyno plot elsewhere on this site).

Andrew

Post by **Guy Croft** » February 21st, 2007, 9:27 am

Thanks,

if you can spare the time please put some useful links to Carter and Huco pumps in the links section, links that explain a bit about the pumps and where you can get them.

GC

Graham Stewart · Post by **Graham Stewart** » July 14th, 2007, 10:00 pm

Hi,

I've just restarted my 1980 Spyder 2 litre after some years of inactivity and have been interested in the fuel pump information in this thread. In the end I plumped for a Huco, on the grounds that I wanted to mount the pump in the engine bay rather than in the boot. The car has a standard engine and I have no immediate plans to tune it, so the Huco was the obvious choice.

A number of points impressed me about the Huco. There is more adjustability with the Huco than with the Facet, both in terms of mounting the pump and in terms of the inlet/outlet positions. The pump can be rotated in the clamp, and the inlet and outlet positions can be altered to a considerable degree. Also the pump appears to be dismantlable (is that a word?), as the body of the pump is bolted to the inlet/outlet portion of the pump by a number of pozi-head screws.

The car started quickly and without fuss with the Huco, but of course the real proof is in the using. Hoepfully I can post progress reports over time. I bought mine from http://www.fastroadcars.co.uk . Delivery was very quick and the cost (including carriage) was under â€šÂ£50.

sumplug · Post by **sumplug** » July 15th, 2007, 7:40 am

Graham.
If you are heading for the South of France, your fuel pump needs to be moved to the tank area. You will get boiling fuel from the high temps in France and its not a good idea to pull the fuel from the tank, but to push. This puts less strain on the pump, keeps it cool, and should keep more of an even pressure.

Andy.

Graham Stewart · Post by **Graham Stewart** » July 15th, 2007, 1:32 pm

Andy,

I understand what you're saying, and if I was fitting a Facet then it would certainly be in the boot 'pushing' fuel through, as you say. I actually bought a Facet Silver-top, fully intending to install it in the boot. But this isn' t intended as a race (or even 'fast road') car, it's just a road car and I didn't fancy all the hassle of mounting the pump in the boot, losing already restricted boot space, cutting holes in the boot for the pipes and re-routing the pipework.

Earlier in the thread someone else mentioned the Huco pump and after reading up about it, it seemed like the best choice for me. Here is a data page for the pump:

http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/HUCO.html

You'll notice that they have two variants; one for mounting in the boot, the other for mounting in the engine bay. As the pump is of the suction type, and operates at lower pressure, I believe it should be far less susceptible to the problems you outline, such as fuel 'boiling' in the pipes at high temps/altitude.

But as I said; the only real proof will be in practice. I'm planning on driving down in the middle of August, through the Massif Central (1100 metres above sea level), so I guess that should be a reasonable test of its capabilities...

sumplug · Post by **sumplug** » July 15th, 2007, 1:54 pm

Ok, if you mount it in the engine bay, then mount it as far away from heat as possible where air can get to it. So inner wing? Properly mounted with rubbers should help it to take the shocks.
Let us know how you get on.

Andy.

Graham Stewart · Post by **Graham Stewart** » July 15th, 2007, 3:28 pm

I've mounted it on the offside front valance (just inboard of the headlights), so it should get reasonable amounts of cool(ish) air. The pump and clamp are made out of a hard graphite-like plastic, and the pump is isolated from the clamp by a broad band of what looks like inner tube, so there is some shock resistance; but admittedly not as much as with the rubbers in the Facet kit.

Then again, in operation the pulses of the Huco pump are much less evident than the Facet. With the Facet you can feel (and hear) the pump working if you touch it. I couldn't feel any vibes from the Huco and you can't even hear it, but the fuel filters showed fuel flowing in plentiful amounts.

I'll keep you posted...

Graham

Cox · Post by **Cox** » July 20th, 2007, 3:17 pm

Guy Croft wrote:

Anyone know (is it?) Mitsuba pumps (or something like that?) - low pressure high flow. Also interested to hear of other good pumps for carb apps.

GC

Maxess Autotechnik GmbH CH-8330 Pfâ€™â€šÂ¤ffikon did sell the Mitsuba fuel pump in Switzerland. The Attached JPG shows the specs in French and German.

http://www.maxess

Graham Stewart · Post by **Graham Stewart** » July 22nd, 2007, 9:13 pm

Hi Cox,

The link you gave is incomplete. This is the link to the site:

http://www.maxess-gmbh.ch/

If you do a search for Mitsuba on the site, then you are directed to a page for fuel pumps, most of which appear to be Bosch. I suspect the best course of action would be to give them a call.

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Lancia Beta 2.0 Fuel Pump

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