Hello Guy (and everyone), I`m new here and as I am only a very basic home mechanic with limited understanding of tuning and modifying I have questions/queries for you. I recently bought a S2 Monte and I appear to have inherited someone elses modifications, which is great (I think!). In amongst the history of the car I have found bills for an engine rebuild/upgrade carried out in 1988 by a company based in Manchester. The spec sheet is as follows:
Full engine build including repainting, refurbishment of unit, crack testing, pressure testing etc.
Full balance including crank, rods, pistons, lightened flywheel, clutchcover, crank pulley & all associated bolts.
High compression pistons raising compression to 10.3-1, also achieved by head & block face work.
Crankshaft ground & polished to 20thou oversize with use of h/d shells.
Pistons pocketed to allow for higher lift of cams, piston size bored out to 84.6.
Cylinder head reworked to match manifold for twin 40dcnf & Ansa 4branch manifold. Combustion chambers reworked and balanced, head refaced, valves recut & seated back into head.
Fast road/rally high lift cams with duration of 42/82/82/42, & machined cam boxes to suit.
Predicted power: single carb 150bhp, twin carb 170bhp.
At the time the car had approx 40,000 miles on it. (now 55,000)
The car has what appears to be the original single carb fitted, although with a K&N. The car appears to go well, pulling cleanly, especially over 3000rpm but idling a little lumpy. It certainly appears faster than a totally standard Monte I had 12 years ago, but maybe thats because I want it to?!
My questions/queries are: Is there enough information here for you to give me a rough idea what bhp you might expect to get from this?
Do these modifications sound correct to you (in other words would you do the same)?
The main reason I want to know is because also in amongst the history file is a receipt for a rolling road test carried out in 1994. It looks very basic, only giving one reading: 103bhp at 5500rpm at wheels. If this car has the aforementioned modifications how can this be correct? Unfortunately I don`t know of a rolling road locally but I will look into this.
I enjoy reading your site and now that I have signed up I look forward to joining in occasionally when my limited knowledge might be of some use to others.
I also look forward to any help and information you can give on my queries.
Thank you, Andrew.
Query re Lancia 2 liter Montecarlo engine setup
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andrew
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Guy Croft
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Hello Andrew
If the rolling road result you cite was indeed only 103bhp at 5500rpm it is a very poor result for a 2 liter TC, yielding only 98lbf ft. Less than the standard engine gives. Yours would need to be up the 135-140lbf ft region to be able to get anywhere near the power claimed/predicted, which, really based on the components and mods, are miles too high for single carb or even twin 40 DCNF.
I do not like the reground crank idea at all, you mustn't do that to the 2 liter cranks, ever.
Check your data, let me know if that figure is correct. But as a general rule it is probably going to be case of keeping it as it is or starting again.
GC
If the rolling road result you cite was indeed only 103bhp at 5500rpm it is a very poor result for a 2 liter TC, yielding only 98lbf ft. Less than the standard engine gives. Yours would need to be up the 135-140lbf ft region to be able to get anywhere near the power claimed/predicted, which, really based on the components and mods, are miles too high for single carb or even twin 40 DCNF.
I do not like the reground crank idea at all, you mustn't do that to the 2 liter cranks, ever.
Check your data, let me know if that figure is correct. But as a general rule it is probably going to be case of keeping it as it is or starting again.
GC
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andrew
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query re Lancia 2 litre montecarlo engine setup
Hi Guy,
Thank you very much for your reply (pm points noted). The figure of 103bhp at 5500rpm is indeed what the sheet says. It mentions altering the carb jets and that reading is after the jet alteration. I wonder how bad it was with the previous jets!! Even with my limited knowledge I did think the "predicted bhp" was a little on the optimistic side, to say the least. I have a twin 40dcnf/Alquati set up waiting to go on but I will have to get to a rolling road first to see exactly what I`ve got now before I fit them. I live in Cumbria with a lot of sheep and not many tuning-minded garages; perhaps you or anyone else reading this know of or can recommend a rolling road reasonably close to me? If there isn`t one then I don`t mind travelling, after all I will be in a Monte and it really doesn`t feel underpowered at all. I was so pleased reading through its history after I bought it, seeing all the modifications, and then that sinking feeling when I saw the rolling road result! I will let you know the results when I get them. Should be 130-135bhp surely? It uses minimal oil (I`ve only done 1000 miles in it) and appears to be happy to rev to 6000rpm though I haven`t pushed any further.
Andrew.
Thank you very much for your reply (pm points noted). The figure of 103bhp at 5500rpm is indeed what the sheet says. It mentions altering the carb jets and that reading is after the jet alteration. I wonder how bad it was with the previous jets!! Even with my limited knowledge I did think the "predicted bhp" was a little on the optimistic side, to say the least. I have a twin 40dcnf/Alquati set up waiting to go on but I will have to get to a rolling road first to see exactly what I`ve got now before I fit them. I live in Cumbria with a lot of sheep and not many tuning-minded garages; perhaps you or anyone else reading this know of or can recommend a rolling road reasonably close to me? If there isn`t one then I don`t mind travelling, after all I will be in a Monte and it really doesn`t feel underpowered at all. I was so pleased reading through its history after I bought it, seeing all the modifications, and then that sinking feeling when I saw the rolling road result! I will let you know the results when I get them. Should be 130-135bhp surely? It uses minimal oil (I`ve only done 1000 miles in it) and appears to be happy to rev to 6000rpm though I haven`t pushed any further.
Andrew.
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Guy Croft
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andrew
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query re Lancia 2litre montecarlo engine setup
Hi Guy,
I did say I was a basic home mechanic, didn`t I... Well I now realize I made a pretty basic home mechanics mistake. I have just learned that Lancia bhp figures are flywheel figures. I thought they were "at the wheels" figures! I`ll gorgive you all for laughing but I really didn`t know!!The figure of 103bhp from my cars old rolling road test was at the wheels! Is there a formula for working out the flywheel figure from a roadwheel figure or could you make an educated guess? Perhaps my car ISN`T underpower at all, although I doubt it`s anywhere near where it should be with the previously mentioned mods. Also, (again probably an educated guess is called for) what power gains can I expect from a properly adjusted and jetted twin 40dcnf/Alquati bolted on? Finally, can you give me approximate jet sizes just to "get me going"?
Thanks Guy, and apologies for my mechanical ignorance...It`s a steep learning curve y`know!
I did say I was a basic home mechanic, didn`t I... Well I now realize I made a pretty basic home mechanics mistake. I have just learned that Lancia bhp figures are flywheel figures. I thought they were "at the wheels" figures! I`ll gorgive you all for laughing but I really didn`t know!!The figure of 103bhp from my cars old rolling road test was at the wheels! Is there a formula for working out the flywheel figure from a roadwheel figure or could you make an educated guess? Perhaps my car ISN`T underpower at all, although I doubt it`s anywhere near where it should be with the previously mentioned mods. Also, (again probably an educated guess is called for) what power gains can I expect from a properly adjusted and jetted twin 40dcnf/Alquati bolted on? Finally, can you give me approximate jet sizes just to "get me going"?
Thanks Guy, and apologies for my mechanical ignorance...It`s a steep learning curve y`know!
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Guy Croft
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andrew
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query re Lancia montecarlo engine set up
Hello Guy,
Well I finally got to a rolling road. The proprietor told me my car was running very lean, to the point he was surprised it even idled. No point in spending time and money adjusting it as Im going to fit twin 40's. He said as a result of this he was unwilling to do a power run but I persuaded him to just take it to 5000rpm so at least I had a benchmark figure. So he did and it achieved the heady figure of 90bhp at the wheels at 5000rpm, adding that in his opinion the running lean issue would lose it maybe 5bhp at least. Im not sure what the standard car would achieve at that rpm, perhaps you could tell me? Im beginning to wonder if this car still has its mods fitted... Also, I took off the camshaft end plates for a peek- the inlet cam has no identification letters or numbers whatsoever, completely blank. The exhaust cam however has: A22187. Mean anything to you?
Andrew.
Well I finally got to a rolling road. The proprietor told me my car was running very lean, to the point he was surprised it even idled. No point in spending time and money adjusting it as Im going to fit twin 40's. He said as a result of this he was unwilling to do a power run but I persuaded him to just take it to 5000rpm so at least I had a benchmark figure. So he did and it achieved the heady figure of 90bhp at the wheels at 5000rpm, adding that in his opinion the running lean issue would lose it maybe 5bhp at least. Im not sure what the standard car would achieve at that rpm, perhaps you could tell me? Im beginning to wonder if this car still has its mods fitted... Also, I took off the camshaft end plates for a peek- the inlet cam has no identification letters or numbers whatsoever, completely blank. The exhaust cam however has: A22187. Mean anything to you?
Andrew.
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