Hi everyone,
I`ve been planning to post an introduction to my Fiat TC engined Morgan for the best part of a year, and finally, finally, I`ve got round to doing it! The car is a 1984 Morgan 4/4 TC 4 seater with a 1585cc twin cam (132D 000), one of just over 90 factory built 4/4 TC`s produced between 1981 and 1985. A lot of these cars apparently were LHD for European markets and so is a rare car in the UK...or anywhere else for that matter! I believe the Fiat engined Morgans were viewed with some suspicion by Morgan fans at the time - perhaps many of them not realising the quality of the engines & gearboxes but knowing a lot about Fiat/Lancia rust problems. Maybe they also thought a foreign engined Morgan was not British enough....blithely ignoring the fact that the first Morgan built in 1909 was powered by ......Peugeot.
My car has covered just 34,000 miles, many Morgans are sparingly used, mine does about 4,000 miles a year as a surprisingly practical second car, but one previous owner only did 1-200 miles a year between MOT`s. Thankfully, the last owner a Parisian, added 9,000 french miles in just under 18 months. However, I fear that this mixed pattern of use and the car`s age has stated to catch up with oil seals and gaskets. Currently, the Marelli alternator has developed a nasty whining howl after water ingress following a `deep puddle' incident last week. The rear crank oil seal is also leaking, but I have sorted the externally leaking head gasket - the head came off last spring - the photos tell the story - sorry for the less than perfect working conditions Guy. GC supplied various parts including head bolts, but no funds were available for any improvements at this time.
The car is largely original, but a rebuild will be needed before too long. the paint is faded and some rot may have started in the ash wood body frame. It`s done well, especially considering the poor standard of build of early 1980`s Morgans - painting was done over entire cars leading to wing bead paint cracking & flaking, and the ash frame was untreated. Needless to say, modern Morgans are assembled with much more care as a tour around the factory reveals. When rebuild time comes, a GC fast road engine would be ideal, along with some modern Morgan upgrades to suspension and brakes. In the meantime, I`ll keep reading the posts on this excellent forum to keep me up to date with engine options, but a seasoned spanner wielder I am, a serious engine builder I`m not, so some topics go over my head somewhat, but you should never stop learning or at least trying to.
Hope this has been of interest - any comments or queries welcome of course. The Fiat engined Morgans always intrigued me, and I`m delighted to own one.
Happy Christmas
GAR
Morgan 4/4 TC - one of the rare ones....
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Re: Morgan 4/4 TC - one of the rare ones....
MODEL POST!
Nicely illustrated and described, with some good old-fashioned DIY on show!
Thanks Graeme - for the post and your kind email - Jolly good to see a TC Morgan here at last!
G
Nicely illustrated and described, with some good old-fashioned DIY on show!
Thanks Graeme - for the post and your kind email - Jolly good to see a TC Morgan here at last!
G
Guy Croft, owner
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Re: Morgan 4/4 TC - one of the rare ones....
Greta photographs. I have to confess that I did not know that Morgan ever used the F/L twin cam engine. I am biased but, if you are thinking about a GC fast road engine may I humbly suggest that you stop thinking and go ahead ! Guy recently completed an engine for me which I cannot wait to install. Like you I am a spanner weilder but no engine builder.
Andy
Andy
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Re: Morgan 4/4 TC - one of the rare ones....
Thanks Andy,
As I rely so much on the Morgan as a second car (and live out in the Suffolk sticks) I`m sort of planning to uprate the car at the same time as a body rebuild - which also may mean a new chassis. So the car will be off the road for several months (hopefully not years!). I haven`t got into serious discussions with GC regarding an engine, but my current thoughts are to get as close as possible to the power/acceleration of a current Morgan 4/4 which uses Fords 1.6 Sigma unit; but without sacrifcing too much m.p.g. (I currently achieve 35-40) and staying with a carb. set up. Big improvements to in gear acceleration is what I`m looking for - top speed is of no interest, Morgans not being very aerodynamic.
The history of Morgan`s use of the Fiat twin cam has passed into Morgan lore. Basically, when Peter Morgan heard that Ford`s replacement for the 1600 crossflow was to be a transverse fitment, he quietly looked for an alternative and being keen on italian engine design (he owned Ferraris) he brought in the 1585cc twin cam with 5 speed box. A Fiat powered 4/4 was displayed at the 1981 Motor Show where it was spotted by a Ford executive who had already ordered a 4/4 expecting it to have a Ford engine. Apparently he set the wheels in motion for the new Ford CVH engine to be made available to Morgan with a RWD box. Morgan then sold both versions of the 4/4 along side each other, the Fiat car being more expensive but the Ford initially only having a 4 speed box. The Fiat engined 4/4 called the TC, was never as far as I know magazine road tested and quietly continued in limited production but being outsold by the Ford version by over 20:1. But the story was not over, in 1985 Morgan dropped the car, but re-introduced their +4 model which had ceased production after Triumph`s TR5 2 litre engine which it used had died a death. The new +4 used a 2 litre Fiat twin cam with electronic ignition & fuel injection and was tested and reported on extensively by the motoring press. Bizarrely a few early versions were supplied with twin Webers and were badged 4/4`s - don`t know why! These Fiat +4`s continued for just of couple of years - about 90 being made- until Fiat too could no longer supply RWD gearboxes; Morgan then moved on to Rover engines & boxes for the +4. End of lecture.
GAR
As I rely so much on the Morgan as a second car (and live out in the Suffolk sticks) I`m sort of planning to uprate the car at the same time as a body rebuild - which also may mean a new chassis. So the car will be off the road for several months (hopefully not years!). I haven`t got into serious discussions with GC regarding an engine, but my current thoughts are to get as close as possible to the power/acceleration of a current Morgan 4/4 which uses Fords 1.6 Sigma unit; but without sacrifcing too much m.p.g. (I currently achieve 35-40) and staying with a carb. set up. Big improvements to in gear acceleration is what I`m looking for - top speed is of no interest, Morgans not being very aerodynamic.
The history of Morgan`s use of the Fiat twin cam has passed into Morgan lore. Basically, when Peter Morgan heard that Ford`s replacement for the 1600 crossflow was to be a transverse fitment, he quietly looked for an alternative and being keen on italian engine design (he owned Ferraris) he brought in the 1585cc twin cam with 5 speed box. A Fiat powered 4/4 was displayed at the 1981 Motor Show where it was spotted by a Ford executive who had already ordered a 4/4 expecting it to have a Ford engine. Apparently he set the wheels in motion for the new Ford CVH engine to be made available to Morgan with a RWD box. Morgan then sold both versions of the 4/4 along side each other, the Fiat car being more expensive but the Ford initially only having a 4 speed box. The Fiat engined 4/4 called the TC, was never as far as I know magazine road tested and quietly continued in limited production but being outsold by the Ford version by over 20:1. But the story was not over, in 1985 Morgan dropped the car, but re-introduced their +4 model which had ceased production after Triumph`s TR5 2 litre engine which it used had died a death. The new +4 used a 2 litre Fiat twin cam with electronic ignition & fuel injection and was tested and reported on extensively by the motoring press. Bizarrely a few early versions were supplied with twin Webers and were badged 4/4`s - don`t know why! These Fiat +4`s continued for just of couple of years - about 90 being made- until Fiat too could no longer supply RWD gearboxes; Morgan then moved on to Rover engines & boxes for the +4. End of lecture.
GAR
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Re: Morgan 4/4 TC - one of the rare ones....
Evening,
Thank you for all this really interesting information. I am amazed that the CVH engined Morgan outsold the twin cam, particularly as the former was not one of Ford's best engines. Given the design philosophy of the Morgan, I would have thought that a thoroughbred twin Cam on carbs was a match made in heaven. Clearly not, which is a shame. It seems, therefore that you have a really rare 4/4. I suspect that if you tell Guy what you want from your engine, he will deliver. What I can promise is that you will not be disappointed.
Andy
Thank you for all this really interesting information. I am amazed that the CVH engined Morgan outsold the twin cam, particularly as the former was not one of Ford's best engines. Given the design philosophy of the Morgan, I would have thought that a thoroughbred twin Cam on carbs was a match made in heaven. Clearly not, which is a shame. It seems, therefore that you have a really rare 4/4. I suspect that if you tell Guy what you want from your engine, he will deliver. What I can promise is that you will not be disappointed.
Andy
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