Porting using filing instead of grinding
-
- Posts: 52
- Joined: October 8th, 2009, 6:42 pm
Porting using filing instead of grinding
Guy,
I am finding out that my hand filed ports get better results than die ground ones. I think that this is because its impossible to produce 'high frequency' features on the the curvature with files - where as it is very easy to end up with little peaks and troughs and 'roughness' with the die grinder.
Given that this is a highly laborious task, I was just wondering if you knew of any machinery that could reduce the burden? I'm thinking of a reciprocating file system or similar. There are systems out there but all the ones I've found look too bulky to use in a port!
Thanks
Iain McL
I am finding out that my hand filed ports get better results than die ground ones. I think that this is because its impossible to produce 'high frequency' features on the the curvature with files - where as it is very easy to end up with little peaks and troughs and 'roughness' with the die grinder.
Given that this is a highly laborious task, I was just wondering if you knew of any machinery that could reduce the burden? I'm thinking of a reciprocating file system or similar. There are systems out there but all the ones I've found look too bulky to use in a port!
Thanks
Iain McL
-
- Posts: 205
- Joined: March 20th, 2007, 1:20 pm
- Location: Midlands UK (A)
- Contact:
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
Just my take but i think thats going to prove impractical really.
I use Guys suggested Metabo die Grinder with integral speed control with the Metabo flexishaft and its by far and away the best/easiest/fastest method ive used thus far.
If you use moderate pressure and dont run the grinder too fast ( i usually go about 7000rpms-minimum speed setting) and keep the burr in motion it cuts nice and smoothly.
Using ATA bands and the split fork deburrer ensures you get a uniform finish that immediately shows up any surface irregularities, not that youll get very many if you use the same tools and methods as Guy.
I use Guys suggested Metabo die Grinder with integral speed control with the Metabo flexishaft and its by far and away the best/easiest/fastest method ive used thus far.
If you use moderate pressure and dont run the grinder too fast ( i usually go about 7000rpms-minimum speed setting) and keep the burr in motion it cuts nice and smoothly.
Using ATA bands and the split fork deburrer ensures you get a uniform finish that immediately shows up any surface irregularities, not that youll get very many if you use the same tools and methods as Guy.
Tony Warren. GC #96.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5039
- Joined: June 18th, 2006, 9:31 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
Sorry Iain,
I have no knowledge of a suitable powered tool for that.
G
I have no knowledge of a suitable powered tool for that.
G
-
- Posts: 52
- Joined: October 8th, 2009, 6:42 pm
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
Many thanks chaps.
I'll look into the Metabo, but might have to 'put up and shut up' for now if its expensive.
Iain
I'll look into the Metabo, but might have to 'put up and shut up' for now if its expensive.
Iain
-
- Posts: 161
- Joined: July 11th, 2007, 2:23 am
- Location: La Verne Calif, USA (A)
- Contact:
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
Recipricating file and stone power tools are common in the mold/die making feild for polishing and contouring. Very costly though so I don't think it is a good way to go.
Google mold polishing stones and files. Many sources
Google mold polishing stones and files. Many sources
Robert Kenney # 111
-
- Posts: 459
- Joined: August 13th, 2010, 8:05 pm
- Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
Using a "flapper wheel" after grinding will take care of any shallow bumps as well. As others already stated, don't cut deep in the first round, but gradually work your way until you are close to where you want to be. Finish the last few tenth of a millimeter with more refined tools and flapper wheels.
Book #348
-
- Posts: 123
- Joined: June 22nd, 2006, 4:46 pm
- Location: Carlisle
- Contact:
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
:-) the Mk 1 finger can work wonders before a flapper finish
259
-
- Posts: 459
- Joined: August 13th, 2010, 8:05 pm
- Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
I think your finger will wear a lot quicker than the material the cylinder head is made of. ;)1NRO wrote::-) the Mk 1 finger can work wonders before a flapper finish
Book #348
-
- Posts: 123
- Joined: June 22nd, 2006, 4:46 pm
- Location: Carlisle
- Contact:
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
:-) true, if there's no abrasive on it. SSR's are easily gouged/flat spotted with rotary tools, the defects show up straight away when the hands are used.
259
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5039
- Joined: June 18th, 2006, 9:31 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
You can finish round ports with a small Flex_Hone, any diameter or grade you choose. *
Don't know why I didn't mention this before, I use them on tortuous inlet manifolds quite often. I oil up with Duck Oil or WD40 or even do them in the Jizer wash tank. Wear protective glasses, the oil splashes everywhere.
Here's the link to the UK agent, old friends of mine:
http://pacehigh.co.uk/category6767/flex-hone-reg.aspx
G
* be careful with Flex-Hones - you get 'hooked' on them and start finding all kinds of alternative applications to use them on..
Don't know why I didn't mention this before, I use them on tortuous inlet manifolds quite often. I oil up with Duck Oil or WD40 or even do them in the Jizer wash tank. Wear protective glasses, the oil splashes everywhere.
Here's the link to the UK agent, old friends of mine:
http://pacehigh.co.uk/category6767/flex-hone-reg.aspx
G
* be careful with Flex-Hones - you get 'hooked' on them and start finding all kinds of alternative applications to use them on..
- Attachments
-
- and you can drive them with a 'baby' battery operated drill like this dandy little Bosch one
- FLEXHONE.jpg (78.82 KiB) Viewed 9278 times
-
- the tapered tubular runners on this unit were finished and blended right into the ports with a hone
- downdrafted SOHC head on dev test.JPG (56.83 KiB) Viewed 9278 times
-
- for technicals among you, this little on-off test shows up the loss
- removal of runner shows viscous loss on downdrafted SOHC.JPG (57.24 KiB) Viewed 9278 times
-
- Posts: 52
- Joined: October 8th, 2009, 6:42 pm
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
Once again thanks everyone.
On the flapper wheels, does anyone know a good supplier in UK?
And on the flex hones guy, there is a worrying range of options available, I'm guessing that I choose one that is slightly bigger than the hole I'm working (controlling section is 24.6, so choose 1"?), but wouldn't really know how to choose the type of abrasive or grade!!
Its just an aluminium head and machines very easily.
Iain
On the flapper wheels, does anyone know a good supplier in UK?
And on the flex hones guy, there is a worrying range of options available, I'm guessing that I choose one that is slightly bigger than the hole I'm working (controlling section is 24.6, so choose 1"?), but wouldn't really know how to choose the type of abrasive or grade!!
Its just an aluminium head and machines very easily.
Iain
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5039
- Joined: June 18th, 2006, 9:31 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
You want just a modest degree of compression for the hones so get dead size or fractionally under/over. If they are bit small you just tilt them in operation to assure surface contact. They will scar the outer face as they go in if too big and just shed abrasive balls. Phone Pacehigh and ask for their advice on the honing.
Cromwell Tools are a good local source for flap wheels, or else MGB Supplies (see links)
G
Cromwell Tools are a good local source for flap wheels, or else MGB Supplies (see links)
G
-
- Posts: 52
- Joined: October 8th, 2009, 6:42 pm
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
I've ordered a 1" Flexhone.
So thats finishing sorted out, but something that I've been meaning to ask for ages is, how do you bore out controlling sections to a defined diameter?
Iain
So thats finishing sorted out, but something that I've been meaning to ask for ages is, how do you bore out controlling sections to a defined diameter?
Iain
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5039
- Joined: June 18th, 2006, 9:31 am
- Location: Bedford, UK
- Contact:
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
By hand with burrs and abrasives, measuring as you go: you just need to practice and develop those skills.
For those who are not familiar there is a huge amount of step-by-step photography in my new book on this.
G
For those who are not familiar there is a huge amount of step-by-step photography in my new book on this.
G
-
- Posts: 52
- Joined: October 8th, 2009, 6:42 pm
Re: Porting using filing instead of grinding
I appreciate the advice Guy.
My wife doesn't know it yet, but she's going to buy me the book for my birthday!
On the grinding front, I can't afford the Metabo, so am going for a cheapskate solution to augment my 3.2mm Dremel. Basically, i'm going to use my wood router with a flexi-shaft. This way I can use bigger burrs and flappers (based on 6mm shafts) to reduce the chance of troughs and peaks etc..
My wife doesn't know it yet, but she's going to buy me the book for my birthday!
On the grinding front, I can't afford the Metabo, so am going for a cheapskate solution to augment my 3.2mm Dremel. Basically, i'm going to use my wood router with a flexi-shaft. This way I can use bigger burrs and flappers (based on 6mm shafts) to reduce the chance of troughs and peaks etc..
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests