Race Engine Forum UK

Hi Guys.
First Post.
I have the engine out of the Integrale to do a list of jobs including the belts. I'm aware that many race engines have removed the balance shafts, but I'm interested to see the previous owner of this car has just removed the balance shaft belt. As a race car ,this season we will run the eng standard but next winter will build something more serious and remove the balance shaft system at that point. Does anybody know what the downside is of leaving it all there but not in use. Are there oil feed issues to journals downstream of the balance shafts. thank you Neil

If you leave the shafts in, make sure they don't rotate on their own. Some people have reported unwanted vibrations due to the shafts moving on their own (16V turbo at least). If you take them out, make sure you put the correct plugs in so you do not disturb oil flow.

You can fix them in place, see photo.

GC

Thank-you Guy. thank-you Whizman.

Have you seen them freewheeling on the Dyno Guy. Or are you clamping them for some other reason.

thank you
Neil

Why do you ask? Is this being discussed on some other forum?

I ask because increasingly - every time I proffer a solution, I am asked, 'why's that then'?

No offence intended - I should simply like to know.

G

I have been told by a person that is regarded as very knowledgeable on the Alfa 155 Q4 forum. He seems to know quite a lot about tuning the 16V turbo engine and advised quite strongly against just taking the belt off and letting the balance shafts spin freely. Because of his reputation, I always have taken his word on this being true. On the 16V TwinSpark engines I've never seen anyone have issues with it, nor have I had them myself on my own cars.

OK.

I was probably the first to 'pin' the shafts like that and I did it quite simply because I (personally) did not like the idea of 'freewheeling' balance shafts. And I removed the belt in the first place because I did not like seeing a device like that running in proximity to the cambelt.


GC

Just naturally curious Guy. I'm a question asker by nature (as I'm sure you are)
I'm new to forums and certainly have no knwledge of the subject being elsewhere, mainly because the only other place my name apperas is with a small group of Lancia guys out here in NZ
No offence taken, just a bit curious to realise they will even rotate , as mine have quite a bit of "stiction"
thank you
Neil

Rotation (per-se) would not matter. But there is the issue of vibration: who knows if a forcing frequency might not exist in the engine that will cause the shafts to vibrate (at their installed natural frequency)?

That would definitely not be a good thing. They are heavy.

G

There is some nice video-compilation on youtube - long for about 40minutes total wich maps Lancia Delta Integrale - engine building, dynoing , building of the body etc.. and there is short shot from dyno room with running engine. That engine has removed balance shaft belt, but front shaft rotate freely.

So only one problem couldd be the vibrations caused from uneven rotation of that shaft (I have also removed belt on my tipo, and didnt lock the shafts..)


Better option is remove shafts from block, and blank the oil feeds of bearing - you get higher and stable oil pressure under all possible circumstances.

Better option is remove shafts from block, and blank the oil feeds of bearing - you get higher and stable oil pressure under all possible circumstances.

Honza I'm sorry - and I very rarely do this (it being a forum) - but it is not a better option. It is an expensive and completely unnecessary one and the risk of contamination of the oil galleries is VERY high.

I do not advocate the practice so do not propose to elaborate on how it can be done.

if I do not assert myself from time to time I will have even more clients preaching me 'best practice' than I already have just because they read it on some forum or another.

GC

Hi everybody!

We are building a street/track car with a peugeot 2.2 16v engine out of peugeot 607. The engine (EW12J4, 86mm bore, 96mm stroke) also has balance shafts, but are easilly removed. They're under the crank and driven by the crank. This is how they look:
As I understand they are there only to smooth out the engine vibrations and have no other purpose, so we thought we wont fit them when the engine will be assembled together. What are your opinions? I think that any unneeded rotating mass should be avoided.

As Guy stated, take care not to mess up any oil galleries and lubrication pressures. These shafts have bearings that need lubrication. If there are oil galleries to and from the bearings, make sure that the pressures and flow of these are the same before and after your modification.

" The risk of contamination of the oil galleries is VERY high. "

Guy, without elaborating on the methods as such, could you please explain just this point in a bit more detail ?

Thanks.

metal debris in oilways

GC