Race Engine Forum UK

Will this ignition fit the standard electronic distributor ?

Miro

Sorry, I'm clueless!

Like so much of this dazzling Abarth stuff I've never seen I before I have no idea what it does (other than rather obviously supply sparks) or how it does it, what it was built for or how compataible it is with your engine & distributor. How you turn this stuff up is a mystery to me Miro! Some poor soul with a Gp4 car is probably desperate for it..

If any astute reader can shed verifiable technical 'light' on this little 'gem' - be my guest!!

GC

Some news !

I learned that this is for mechanical (point ignition) only.

I would still be grateful for more data on this interesting item.
Miro

Miro,

Very interesting to see that the module has an integral coil. If you dont care to keep it stock Abarth, consider a MSD CD ignition box. Nothing compares realy.

Hi Miro,

I guess you found this in Hungary, as the pic titles are in Hungarian? :-)

The box says "Electronic Ignition with optimized internal coil". The plate by the plugs
seem to indicate that it can be used both with points or electronic ignition.

To tell you the truth almost anything made today will be a lot better than 1970s
technology. Looks great tho, would be super for a vintage racer.
bye,

Csaba

Well,

yes, but if I only knew how to wire it up ???

Miro

Miro,

Any chance you could snap a picture of the schematic data plate seen in your first photo?

Robert

Miro,
I dont mean to sound overly negative, but I dont know why you are bothering with this ? You probably know this is not a Gr.4 131 item. I expect it isnt even crudely mappable like the correct Gr.4 item.
At best your engine will not run optimally and have less power than possible. At worst, you will damage your engine.

This is only for Ignition. My guess is it will use a sensor from crankshaft/TDC position and flywheel/revs to read a table and provide spark (similar to digiplex).

Out of interest, are you using an Abarth or non Abarth head?

Melo

Melo,

I have give up on using this , as a result of current advice.

I am pursuing this purely out of general interest.

Re: head . I am using standard 8v 130 TC ported and modified by GC.

Miro

Regarding this photo I was doing some flowtests the other day so while this post is at top level (and has 'ground to a halt' !) I am going to hijack it and post some pictures that are kindof relevant - if not to the ignition.

For the purists among my readers who prefer to see a beautiful billet aluminium rig for this I will simply say I am British and if I can 'lash it together' and thereby save time I suredly will. Those who bought the GC Head Prep DVD (another one that 'ground to a halt'!) will know this. To be honest, can't remember for the life of me if carbs are 44 or 48 but that wasn't of any great importance here.

No captions, my 3 year old tells me she can figure it out easy enough..

GC

Guy ,

If I read it correctly , the long widening horns are superior over the bold on mash shorts by something like 6.7 CFM.

This is almost 5 % difference just on such a small item.

This is very interesting. It proves that guessing flow on the carbs and ports is amateur and measuring it is professional.

I am not totally sold on that HP is the predominant factor in racing (as they say : HP sells cars but torque wins races) but just out of curiosity: can this be translated into HP win/loss? Can it be otherwise expressed in engine performance effect ?

Miro

If you bolt on (or create!) a 'loss' on the flowbench like that gauze covered rampipe did - you will see a BHP loss.

Cylinder filling (airflow) generates firing pressure = torque. Power (BHP) is a function of torque and rpm.


GC

The gauze cover, I did notice on the photo that was posted and it struck me then that it would create a loss (as do a pair of stockings which I've seen used) but also the ingestion of dust is going to do damage surely?

Filtration value absolutely zero though they will stop nuts and bolts falling in ..

Poor - or no - air filtration causes rapid wear of guides, valve seats, rings, bores and of course presents an extreme fire hazard on backfire. On turbocharged engines it cause aggravated wear of the blades on compressor and turbine.

A top-of-the-range filter system consists of an airbox sealed to the carbs or throttle bodies with a large bore intake port (eg 4" diameter) either with:

a) Filter inside that airbox atop carbs giving 1" clear all round the rampipes
or
b) Ducting from that airbox to a remote filter box with an internal filter of proven design (K&N, ITG..)

with, in both cases, the filter sealed off from the engine bay and the filter fed from the front of the vehicle via a tapered entry duct of comparable diameter giving air at ambient temperature.

It is vital to get air to the rampipes at atmospheric pressure - if the ducting or filter is too small the state in the airbox will be below atmospheric pressure and this will reduce power.

Any setup that is not as well-constituted as this will not be as good whatever claims are made for it.

This 'technology' will not come as news to the well-informed reader and aeven a passing glance at an HGV intake system (when you're sat in traffic) will show you this kind of layout (with cyclonic airbox at the bottom of the intake stack) but I am still shocked by the number of installations I see where the owner's engine is inducting from under the engine bay (at VERY high temperature) and wondering why a) the engine power drops off as the engine gets hotter and b) the engine detonates. I have personally proven-out the power loss from hot intake air (and engine) and I am certain from tests that whilst hot air is less dense and thus can achieve higher intake velocity the loss of charge density resulting is a far bigger issue.

If you're wondering why so many cars inducted direct from the engine bay (124 Spider and CSA and a million other models) it is because it was cheap to do and with standard power just about tolerable. Like so many subjects on this site - it doesn't mean it's a good idea for you!

It goes without saying that with boosted engines the issue of 'cool' intake air is extremely critical, intake temp over 45 deg C will take the engine into 'the detonation zone' irrespective of plug and fuel type, CR etc etc.

I am big fan of K&N and personally speaking believe they have the best blend of filtration and low pressure-drop.

GC