Lancia Montecarlo - Dry sump parts

Competition engines and ancillaries - general discussion
Snakeman
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Lancia Montecarlo - Dry sump parts

Post by Snakeman » July 12th, 2006, 3:04 pm

Hi Guy,

I have just got back from the historical Le Mans, driving my S2 Montecarlo ¢‚¬Å“ Superb 8) ! I would recommend this event for anyone even remotely interested in classic cars and classic car racing!

Anyway, I am looking to gradually upgrade certain aspects of the Monte, one of which is a dry sump kit. Is there a company still trading that can provide an alloy dry sump that bolts directly to the block of a 2.0L TC?

Kind regards

S

pastaroni34
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Post by pastaroni34 » July 12th, 2006, 3:07 pm

If you can wait a while (6 months or so) we might have replicas of the 037 sump. Can't give much of an estimate on cost though, waiting for casting company to get back with me before I can figure it out.
-Jason Miller
Miller's Mule Machine and Design Inc.
Houston, Texas - USA

Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » July 12th, 2006, 3:22 pm

er....bolts straight on to a Monte?! Ho ho ho Geoff! Yup, they're just lining up to serve ya!

GC

Snakeman
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Lancia Montecarlo - Dry sump parts

Post by Snakeman » July 12th, 2006, 3:23 pm

Hi Jason,

No rush, but I would like an estimate of costs as it may be prohibitivly expensive for me

keep me updated

Kind regards

pastaroni34
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Post by pastaroni34 » July 13th, 2006, 1:20 am

I'll have to keep our website updated with the progress.
-Jason Miller
Miller's Mule Machine and Design Inc.
Houston, Texas - USA

Stratman
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Post by Stratman » July 13th, 2006, 9:47 am

Was a one-off, but I¢ž¢ve made this alloy dry-sump system for a Beta block to go in the back of my Stratos replica, so similar setup to a Montecarlo. There was a fair amount of machining involved (it was a blank from Pace, based on the old Peugeot 406 touring car engine), it required a spacer plate to allow clearance for the crank and windage tray. It¢ž¢s quite neat in that the pump mounts on the sump.

You will then need gilmer pulleys for the crank and some way of tensioning the belt ¢‚¬Å“ I incorporated the alternator to get the tension. Then they is the oil tank, remote filter, oil cooler, Aeroquip hosing and fittings - probably the best part of ‚£800, so not cheap, but worth it I think.

I¢ž¢ve attached a picture of the setup.

thank you,
Chris
Attachments
dry_sump_1.jpg
dry_sump_1.jpg (36.53 KiB) Viewed 12092 times

Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » July 13th, 2006, 10:11 am

nice post Chris, thanks for sharing it with us.

GC

Snakeman
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Post by Snakeman » July 13th, 2006, 5:15 pm

Hi Chris,

Looks just the job, the special oil gallery outlet is also of interest to me as the Monte normally has this monster cast iron bracket on the side of the block doing the same job which must be 8 Kg!

Are there any publications, books etc on drysumping?



G

Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » July 13th, 2006, 5:31 pm

Don't you have my TC book Geoff?

GC

Snakeman
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Post by Snakeman » July 13th, 2006, 8:11 pm

Yes, I am reading that section just now. I have just noticed the price I paid for it. The sticker is still on the back ‚£19.95!

G

Stratman
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Post by Stratman » July 13th, 2006, 8:59 pm

Geoff, looks like Guy beat me too it - I was going to suggest his book :).

You mention the heavy bracket on the Monte block - isn't that one of the engine mounts, or I'm I confusing it with another model ?

Guy,
I've got a question regarding the plumbing in of an oil cooler (water/oil type) in a dry sump system - most seem to position the cooler in the return line back to the tank, but wouldn't this have air in it too? I would of thought it better to position it in the line from the bottom of the tank to the inlet side of the pressure pump - you are then getting a steady flow of oil, thus cooling it better ? The only downside to this set-up I can see is, if the cooler should fail somehow, then you can say goodbye to any oil pressure :( I'm guessing the former method must be perfectly adequate as you and many others have used it on many engines.

thank you,
Chris

simon-spanner
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Post by simon-spanner » July 13th, 2006, 10:44 pm

you have two choices- either put the cooler in the scavenge return line to the tank, but you are correct the scavenge is a mixture of oil and air bubbles which seriously diminishes the cooling ability of the cooler. You could try putting a small mesh filter in the return prior to the cooler to try and break down the bubbles a bit.
The preferred method and the one i tend to use is to place the cooler in the pressure line after the pump and filter as this cools the oil directly before it enters the main gallery also the filter will protect the cooler from any debris if the engine goes pop!
i'll post some pictures early next week in the "simons ,what i'm laying with " post of the GT car i'm currently reworking the dry sump system on

Also i can fabricate at reasonable cost any sort of sump pan you care to want and associated pump bracketry

Stratman
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Post by Stratman » July 14th, 2006, 7:27 am

Thanks for the info Simon.

Are you going to be at RTCCs in the morning (Sat 14th) - I only live round the corner and wouldn't mind popping over for a look and a chat ?

thank you, Chris

Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft » July 14th, 2006, 8:42 am

Cooler on the scavenge line is good, but immutable rule: oil circuit layout - the engine feed oil should always go thru the filter last. If the cooler's not cooling enough, get a bigger one. Not usually an issue with dry sump as the reservoir gives up a lot of the heat, provided of course the region where it is situated is ventilated adequately. If the engine suffers a major bearing failure, junk the cooler.

GC

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Post by simon-spanner » July 14th, 2006, 9:29 am

No prob with the morning of the 14th- I'm always here- i dont think i'm actually allowed to leave!

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