Which fast road engine for a sevenesque kit car on a budget?

Road-race engines and ancillaries - general discussion

For something like a Sylva LEader, would you choose:

Fiat twin cam
15
38%
Fiat twin cam
15
38%
Ford x-flow
1
3%
Ford x-flow
1
3%
Ford Pinto
1
3%
Ford Pinto
1
3%
Rover V8
3
8%
Rover V8
3
8%
 
Total votes: 40

Chris71
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Post by Chris71 »

Kev Rooney wrote:As you are looking for the best choice of engine ready installed in the car, much as I love a high revving four cylinder , I have built several Rover V8's and even a standard unit will give the most power for your money and weighs the same as a Pinto 2000 ( which is only marginally heavier than a Kent unit ) as it features an aluminium block ,heads , timing cover and water pump. Tuning parts are considerably dearer than an equivalent American V8 but the lack of weight is a huge advantage.
Is there really that little difference between the RV8 and the pinto? I heard this suggested elsewhere and then a load of people claimed this was not the case in reality.

I'm not really sure a V8 is really suited to the chassis, but it's only supposed to be a fun car, rather than a competition vehicle, so I don't mind admitting a V8 sound track would be rather fun.

The idea is not to 'attempt a project' - it's supposed to be a turn-key car for that price. Obviously the key difference in the build specs of these cars is what engine the owner slots in and effectively I'm trying to gauge whether say, a Leader with a twin cam is worth more to me than a Leader with a cross flow. My available time and budget doesn't really stretch to a self build and if it did, I certainly wouldn't be using one of these 1980s chassis designs, however that's all I've got to play with - a few thousand pounds and no space for major work - the question is what to go for within those constraints.

The rarity of these cars may make that a bit academic to be honest. I've been looking speculatively for a couple of months and only just seen my first usable condition Sylva Leader for sale. It might be foolish to turn down a good deal on the grounds of it having a x-flow not a twin cam or whatever, but would like to gte an idea of what they're worth to me.
Kev Rooney
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Post by Kev Rooney »

Chris, I believe the actual difference is 20 lbs . The amount of available torque more than covers that amount. I've also run pre-crossflow Kent units , crossflow Ford and tuned Pintos. I would go for a Pinto , as unspohisticated as it is ,over a Kent as the torque is vastly superior.
Scorpion77
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Post by Scorpion77 »

Chris,
You can get a 61 / 63 Buick 215, (same as the Rover) but much cheaper. These fine aluminum engines weigh only 320 pounds with fluids and can be made to run over 250 horsepower easy with tons of torque. Don't get me wrong, I love Fiat engines, but if you want to go fast, theres only one choice here as far as I'm concerned. Good Luck.
77 Lancia Scorpion
andy97
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Post by andy97 »

Has anyone mentioned the Fiat SOHC engines? 1500 & 1600's easily available and tuneable, albeit not to mega figures. How about a turbo version??? Not sure how easy it would be to fit those from a ipo or Uno etc to a RWD car, though.
sumplug
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Post by sumplug »

If you use a V8 in a light weight kit car chassis, you will overwhelm it with all the low down torque, making it a very poor drivable [traction] machine.
Having driven a Westfield Seight, it would wheel spin in nearly all the gears, and would become so tiring after a while. In the wet, it was lethal !!
Stick to a Fiat twin cam with its linear torque curve.

Andy.
Guy Croft
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Post by Guy Croft »

yes, I know what I'd use, same choice as Andy.

We've just had a member join with a Sylva - Alan Rowell, maybe he would like to comment?

Interestingly only 17 members have anwered the poll and the vote is very strongly for the TC. It may be that other members did not feel sufficiently au-fait with the different engines to comment, which is fair enough.

Ground clearance solution with the TC with its very deep crankcase skirt BTW is a hefty alloy bash-plate (sumpguard) to protect the sump. My best ever attempt a low-profile/big wing sump (you must not just hack the base off or it will have insufficient capacity) only saved about 3/4" and it's not worth doing just for that.

GC
Chris71
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Post by Chris71 »

Well, I've found a car (and an engine)

To be precise, it's this one,

http://freespace.virgin.net/tony.wylde/sylva/sylva.html

(the yellow one at the top - that's a previous owners web page)

It comes with a 1600 Fiat twin cam installed and an 1800 spare (don't know where the 2 litre comment on the web page came from)

First things first - can anyone identify the 1600 engine that's installed? If I remember correctly, it was said to come from a 1974 124 spider (bit of a shame really, the Fiat is a much nicer looking car!) and that's about all I know about it. The car is at the other end of the country right now and will be brought down on a trailer in a few weeks, so I don't have any engine numbers or anything to confirm I'm afraid. Only other info is that it's mated to a Fiat 131 5 speed 'box.

Will take a look at the sump type when I get it and look into a nice solid sump guard!

(edited because I can't spell!)
Chris71
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Post by Chris71 »

PS Can anyone (ahem) recommend a good workshop manual for the Fiat Twin Cam. Went on Amazon to find Guy's book and their 'LOWEST PRICE!' was ‚£375 - they went up to ‚£500. Surely some mistake? Is there an alterntive source or are they really that expensive?
sumplug
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Post by sumplug »

Haynes cover the engine in the Fiat 131 and 132 books. Always copies on an internet auction site. Guy's book appears sometimes on there too.

Andy.
stefz
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Far more to choose from.. Zetec-S /SE

Post by stefz »

With the seven esque style kitcar, more emphassis is being put on achieving an ultra low weight car these days, with some manufacturers claiming to be able to supply kits capable of being built to under 400Kg.. the common mile stone now is sub 550kg..which is what I am building toward.

I am building up a classic locost chassis, powered by a ford Zetec-s engine (1.6L all-alloy) fantastic little engines, regarded as a baby duratec, albeit not chain drive. They make around 100hp (upto 155hp in the 1.7L ford Racing Puma) as standard and weigh around 80kg, saving around 65kg over a pinto engine and over 20kg compared to the bigger Duratec (109kg), aswell as being dimensionally smaller, they are a great power/weight compromise.


stefz.
BSc
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