After my tarmac rally in the weekend, even with the baffled sump in my Lancia Volumex the oil pressure in the engine was dropping below the 30psi warning level I have set for a light on my dashboard. I don't know what the pressure is dropping to but incorporating Guy's advice, I have now ordered an oil accumulator.
Reading the posts on this web, Guy's book and the literature from the manufacturers of the oil accumulator I have some questions regarding how it is piped into my system.
Here is a diagram of the system that I am thinking of.
The area marked "New" is the inclusion of the accumulator and associated valving. I envisage Teeing into the existing return line to the existing sandwich plate between the block and filter. This seems the simplest and is similar to other systems I have seen (for example fig.2 of the Canton Accusump installation instructions).
Thinking about how this all works I have a number of questions:
1. What pressure should the solenoid valve be set? I have two schools of thought - both with issues, lower than 30psi as 30psi is the pressure at idle as the accumulator only fills when the pressure is above the setpoint pressure of the valve (but my oil light will come on) or higher than 30psi (to avoid my oil light coming on) but then the accumulator wouldn't fill at idle. I am erring towards 20-25psi.
2. If the sandwich plate is a thermostatic sandwich plate (which I am assuming) on start-up, what is to stop the acumulator dumping 1.5 Qts of oil in the system and then not re-charging until the oil system is at temperature when the thermostat opens? I think this will happen, is it a actually a problem?
3.Conversly if the engine is warm and the accumulator is full of cold oil (as it hasn't discharged fully on start-up), does that cause any damage?
Oil Accumulator connection
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Oil Accumulator connection
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Re: Oil Accumulator connection
No the solenoid is just to keep the accumulator primed when you turn off that way when you turn the engine on it primes the engine with oil, the valve remains open all the time with the ignition on and oil will flow in and out dependent on the pressure on the other side of the accumulator piston. Dont use a thermostatic sandwich plate (I've not see one) use a normal take off plate and an external oil-stat plumbed with the oil cooler. Question 3 is solved with the things I wrote above.
Rich
Rich
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Re: Oil Accumulator connection
Thanks for the quick answer Rich, I am going by the description of the solenoid valve and how it works from the supplier which says:
"Better than a manual valve, these electronic control accumulator solenoid valves allow only the needed volume of oil to be released for quicker filling and discharging. They feature an internal sensor that electronically activates when engine oil pressure drops below normal. When the engine returns to normal pressure, the accumulator refills automatically, ready for the next possible occurrence. They come available in three different pressure ranges, so you can choose the electronic control accumulator solenoid valves that best fit your specific engine combination."
The pressure sensor ranges are 15-24psi, 35-40psi and 55-60psi.
As for the sandwhich plate, reading the Volumex information it is a thermostatic one which comes as standard (opens at 78C, fully open at 84C). I would prefer not to change it if possible so rather than include a new arrangement does my suggested connection work? As I describe in my previous post the Canton installation information has a thermostat after the filter, before the cooler isolating the return line to the engine where the accumulator is connected, which looks to be the same as what I am suggesting.
Thanks,
Adam
"Better than a manual valve, these electronic control accumulator solenoid valves allow only the needed volume of oil to be released for quicker filling and discharging. They feature an internal sensor that electronically activates when engine oil pressure drops below normal. When the engine returns to normal pressure, the accumulator refills automatically, ready for the next possible occurrence. They come available in three different pressure ranges, so you can choose the electronic control accumulator solenoid valves that best fit your specific engine combination."
The pressure sensor ranges are 15-24psi, 35-40psi and 55-60psi.
As for the sandwhich plate, reading the Volumex information it is a thermostatic one which comes as standard (opens at 78C, fully open at 84C). I would prefer not to change it if possible so rather than include a new arrangement does my suggested connection work? As I describe in my previous post the Canton installation information has a thermostat after the filter, before the cooler isolating the return line to the engine where the accumulator is connected, which looks to be the same as what I am suggesting.
Thanks,
Adam
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Re: Oil Accumulator connection
Ok Adam, I'm not sure I see the benefit of this electronic valve setup though, I guess it allows the maximum pressure to be accumulated for a pressure drop situation, question is what pressure situation would be a switch to possible damage scenario especially at high rpm - I guess Guy could estimate that, however as you said pressure will change with oil temp.
As for the oil stat again another question for Guy.
In all I've been of little help, sorry as my set is perhaps too different.
Rich
As for the oil stat again another question for Guy.
In all I've been of little help, sorry as my set is perhaps too different.
Rich
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Re: Oil Accumulator connection
Hi Adam,
Excellent drawing!
I run an accusump on my Beta Coupe, but use a remote filter and external thermostat, that only bypasses the oil cooler. I have a baffled sump also, but still had oil surge around right hand corners. I use a standard electric solenoid (without pressure control) that is open all the time the ignition is on and it works well. I did not need the check valve as the oil filter already has one built in. If you are using one with pressure control I suggest you use one on the 35-40 psi range. Your suggested setup will work so long as the inlet to your thermostatic sandwich plate from the oil cooler/accusump is open to the main oil gallery when the thermostat is closed. If the thermostat however closes the inlet/outlet from the sandwich plate it will not work, in that instance you will either have to plump the accusump direct into the main oil gallery, or get rid of the sandwich plate and use a take off plate with remote filter. Regards Ian
Excellent drawing!
I run an accusump on my Beta Coupe, but use a remote filter and external thermostat, that only bypasses the oil cooler. I have a baffled sump also, but still had oil surge around right hand corners. I use a standard electric solenoid (without pressure control) that is open all the time the ignition is on and it works well. I did not need the check valve as the oil filter already has one built in. If you are using one with pressure control I suggest you use one on the 35-40 psi range. Your suggested setup will work so long as the inlet to your thermostatic sandwich plate from the oil cooler/accusump is open to the main oil gallery when the thermostat is closed. If the thermostat however closes the inlet/outlet from the sandwich plate it will not work, in that instance you will either have to plump the accusump direct into the main oil gallery, or get rid of the sandwich plate and use a take off plate with remote filter. Regards Ian
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Re: Oil Accumulator connection
Forgive me if I do not go over what has already been (very well) written so far.
My view is:
1. Do not use the pressure-sensing valve
2. Do not use a thermostatic sandwich plate.
The only layout I would use is shown schematically below. How the oil is fed out of the engine into the circuit and how the filtered oil is fed back in down entirely to the take-off on the side of the block. It could be a GC take-off plate (say on a RWD 124/131 TC unit) or a plain sandwich block if a Lancia (where the alternator mount is integral with the old oil filter housing).
GC
My view is:
1. Do not use the pressure-sensing valve
2. Do not use a thermostatic sandwich plate.
The only layout I would use is shown schematically below. How the oil is fed out of the engine into the circuit and how the filtered oil is fed back in down entirely to the take-off on the side of the block. It could be a GC take-off plate (say on a RWD 124/131 TC unit) or a plain sandwich block if a Lancia (where the alternator mount is integral with the old oil filter housing).
GC
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- wet-sump oil circuit with external stat and accumulator.GIF (12.19 KiB) Viewed 6109 times
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- Lancia with plain sandwich plate and 'mushroom' blanking plate to run remote filter and external oilstat
- JB eng_rigging for bench test.jpg (93.99 KiB) Viewed 6109 times
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