Fiat Cams - 130TC vs 1800 Sport
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Fiat Cams - 130TC vs 1800 Sport
Hi All!
Rumour says that the 130 TC camshafts, are the best standard cams for a TC.....second only to the misunderstood 1608 cams....
After taking a close look at profiles of some sets of used cams, there seemed to be differences visible to the bare eye.
So I decided to measure some cams quickly, just to get an idea regarding the cam profile, duration and lift:
The comparison is between a std 1800 Sport and the "abarthcams". In defence of the 130 TC cams they were worn a bit - 9.65mm vs 10 mm new. Actually I have never had a pair of 130 cams measuring more than 9.8 mm lift (10.03 mm new), seems like these cams loose at least 0,2 mm when they get a bit of use..... the have a very "narrow" nose profile
The 1800 cams turned out very close to the stated 9.9 mm lift - 9.89mm!! I double checked the measurements closely - they must be close to new - considering the look of them.
The interesting bit was the duration, ramp, and lift at various degrees:
The 124 cam has approximately 280` duration at 0.4mm while the abarth has around 240`duration.....thats a quite a difference
The ramp section on the cam are almost none on the Abarth though, while the 124 has a very long slow ramp
The lift integral seems very equal.
The lift is 0.5 mm higher or more for the 124 cams during more than 30 cam degrees of the lift and closure phase.
Guess the 130 cams are not so "hot" after all, and the 124 1800 Sport cams probably one of the most powerful in the Fiat family......
Anyhow, if You are determined to use standard Fiat cams - take a look at 124 Sport cams - not Strada/Ritmo abarth or 1608.
I was surprised - the difference is real!!
Best regards
Remi Lovhoiden
BTW: how can I upload a PDF or exelsheet in this post, and not as an attachment??
Here we go:
Rumour says that the 130 TC camshafts, are the best standard cams for a TC.....second only to the misunderstood 1608 cams....
After taking a close look at profiles of some sets of used cams, there seemed to be differences visible to the bare eye.
So I decided to measure some cams quickly, just to get an idea regarding the cam profile, duration and lift:
The comparison is between a std 1800 Sport and the "abarthcams". In defence of the 130 TC cams they were worn a bit - 9.65mm vs 10 mm new. Actually I have never had a pair of 130 cams measuring more than 9.8 mm lift (10.03 mm new), seems like these cams loose at least 0,2 mm when they get a bit of use..... the have a very "narrow" nose profile
The 1800 cams turned out very close to the stated 9.9 mm lift - 9.89mm!! I double checked the measurements closely - they must be close to new - considering the look of them.
The interesting bit was the duration, ramp, and lift at various degrees:
The 124 cam has approximately 280` duration at 0.4mm while the abarth has around 240`duration.....thats a quite a difference
The ramp section on the cam are almost none on the Abarth though, while the 124 has a very long slow ramp
The lift integral seems very equal.
The lift is 0.5 mm higher or more for the 124 cams during more than 30 cam degrees of the lift and closure phase.
Guess the 130 cams are not so "hot" after all, and the 124 1800 Sport cams probably one of the most powerful in the Fiat family......
Anyhow, if You are determined to use standard Fiat cams - take a look at 124 Sport cams - not Strada/Ritmo abarth or 1608.
I was surprised - the difference is real!!
Best regards
Remi Lovhoiden
BTW: how can I upload a PDF or exelsheet in this post, and not as an attachment??
Here we go:
- Attachments
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- Cams Abarth vs 1800.pdf
- (191.89 KiB) Downloaded 780 times
Last edited by Abarthnorway - Remi L on October 13th, 2010, 1:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
GC_45
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Re: Fiat Cams - 130TC vs 1800 Sport
You are spot on Remi, the 124 CC 1800 cams are the best in the Fiat factory family from all ive measured also.
They are 30/70 - 70/30 with factory cam gears at running clearence of 0.5mm.
the 15/55 - 55/15 often quoted is at 0.8mm clearence.
So spot on with what you have also found.
Sorry ive never seen 130 Abarth cams.
They are 30/70 - 70/30 with factory cam gears at running clearence of 0.5mm.
the 15/55 - 55/15 often quoted is at 0.8mm clearence.
So spot on with what you have also found.
Sorry ive never seen 130 Abarth cams.
Last edited by ace124 on October 13th, 2010, 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pictures - 130TC vs 1800 Sport
Hi !
Some pictures of profile
Profile of 130TC on left - 1800 Sport at right
Best regards
Remi Lovhoiden
Some pictures of profile
Profile of 130TC on left - 1800 Sport at right
Best regards
Remi Lovhoiden
GC_45
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Re: Fiat Cams - 130TC vs 1800 Sport
Hi, I wonder what casting no. is it on this 124 CC 1800 cams?
Ulf Thunberg
Ulf Thunberg
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Re: Fiat Cams - 130TC vs 1800 Sport
Please correct me if I'm wrong (Guy)..
From a document I have (in french by the way), it is said that the casting number are:
4333582 intake - 4334852 exhaust (with dist drive gear)
Though, I have found a set of cams carrying those same casting numbers, in possession of an old (really old) mechanic, and he can swear he took them off his Fiat 132 2000 original engine. After reviewing the document I have, I saw it says that the 132 2000 (and Argenta) cam degrees were: 15/55 intake, 57/13 exhaust.
So practically, the 132 2000 uses that same 124 1800 cam on the intake side, and probably the same exhaust cam too (listed 55/15 on the 124 1800 and spider 2000). I just suppose that on the exhaust side, the pulley was modified on the 132 2000 to give the ex cam 2 degrees of advance, to keep some low end torque.
That was my personal opinion, and that's what I saw about castings. MAYBE my document isn't that precise, so PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong :)
Regards, Nabih
From a document I have (in french by the way), it is said that the casting number are:
4333582 intake - 4334852 exhaust (with dist drive gear)
Though, I have found a set of cams carrying those same casting numbers, in possession of an old (really old) mechanic, and he can swear he took them off his Fiat 132 2000 original engine. After reviewing the document I have, I saw it says that the 132 2000 (and Argenta) cam degrees were: 15/55 intake, 57/13 exhaust.
So practically, the 132 2000 uses that same 124 1800 cam on the intake side, and probably the same exhaust cam too (listed 55/15 on the 124 1800 and spider 2000). I just suppose that on the exhaust side, the pulley was modified on the 132 2000 to give the ex cam 2 degrees of advance, to keep some low end torque.
That was my personal opinion, and that's what I saw about castings. MAYBE my document isn't that precise, so PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong :)
Regards, Nabih
HORSEPOWERunlimited
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Re: Fiat Cams - 130TC vs 1800 Sport
THE CASTING NUMBERS - IN TERMS OF CAM CHARACTERISTICS MEAN NOTHING AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They merely ID the blank that was used for the casting. They have nothing to do with the grind that is applied to those cast blanks. Once they have cooled-down! The design of the blanks has changed slightly over the production years of the TC (mainly in terms of the width of the lobe though not exclusively) but essentially all 8V TC blanks (for every engine) since launch of the 131/132 in 1973 are the same (though of course - not the final lobe grind).
To ID a TC cam you have to measure its lift, base circle diameter, map it lift degree, know the origin (because you took the car to bits they came from etc etc).
FWIW the only characteristic that I ever concerned myself with was the peak lift.
GC
They merely ID the blank that was used for the casting. They have nothing to do with the grind that is applied to those cast blanks. Once they have cooled-down! The design of the blanks has changed slightly over the production years of the TC (mainly in terms of the width of the lobe though not exclusively) but essentially all 8V TC blanks (for every engine) since launch of the 131/132 in 1973 are the same (though of course - not the final lobe grind).
To ID a TC cam you have to measure its lift, base circle diameter, map it lift degree, know the origin (because you took the car to bits they came from etc etc).
FWIW the only characteristic that I ever concerned myself with was the peak lift.
GC
- Attachments
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- just to illustrate this is the cam nose from one of the 1st 1438cc TC engines EVER made, note how a relief for oil dispersion is absent on this design. The cam has very narrow lobes but has the same journal diameters found on every TC from 1967 (or thereabouts, not sure precisely when the Lampredi unit was first launched) right up to the end of line in what (?) 1990s - or so.
- DT 1438 cam nose.JPG (11.48 KiB) Viewed 8956 times
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Re: Fiat Cams - 130TC vs 1800 Sport
Guy
Thank you for your most valuable information. I think I should consider re-checking my cams measurements by traditional methods, regardless of what any document says. It became vital to me, as I'm planning to use them in my engine rebuild soon, with hi-comp pistons and adjustable cam wheels.
Thanks again :)
Thank you for your most valuable information. I think I should consider re-checking my cams measurements by traditional methods, regardless of what any document says. It became vital to me, as I'm planning to use them in my engine rebuild soon, with hi-comp pistons and adjustable cam wheels.
Thanks again :)
HORSEPOWERunlimited
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Re: Fiat Cams - 130TC vs 1800 Sport
Thanks!
Ulf Thunberg
Ulf Thunberg
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