Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Competition engines and ancillaries - general discussion
DeltaDave
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by DeltaDave » Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:45 pm

tricky wrote:Appologies to Dave, for hijacking the thread slightly.

We'd all love to see some more photos of your manifold I am sure, perhaps some taken from above or side would be cool. How does it fit with the front 'slam' panel ????
What slam panel? "Where we are going we dont need roads!" (Doc off Back to the future). Here are a few pictures during a trial install a while ago. Please spare me of all the little questions about where the coolers are going to go etc, just wait and see.
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Guy Croft
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by Guy Croft » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:39 am

What's that big scuffy alloy housing bolted to the flywheel end of your motor Dave?

G

rmouthaan
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by rmouthaan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:58 am

@ Delta Dave, tricky is right, sorry for the thread pollution, hope you are ok with it.
But that is quite some room you have made there, very very impressive work, wishing you all the luck with the build.


Tricky, sorry that i did not explain the way how i measure them up. But the tape solution is an great way to get accuracy, but i just used an planimeter:).
You can get them cheap, go for the pencil version, have to get an new one anyway, as it was totally destroyed by me, oeps.

Regards,

Remco

TomLouwrier
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by TomLouwrier » Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:57 pm

hi guys,

Impressive craftsmanship here. Me like very much.
There's a way I figured for measuring correct chord length, but have not yet actually tried and tested myself:
- get yourself a good quantity of beads from an arts 'n' crafts shop. They have them in all sorts and sizes; go for something a couple of mm's under your pipe inner diameter so they won't get stuck too easily.
- thread the beads on a piece of string or bowden cable (throttle cable or off a push bike), fixing the one on the end.
- feed your 'chain of pearls' into the pipe until it's nearly filled with beads.
- fixate the end-bead on one side to be level with the flange (like having the flange flat on the bench top and pushing the beads home in the pipe)
You can now mark the string/cable at the level of the other flange (marker, paint, tape, finger nail). There should be no more than one bead's diameter of free length, otherwise you put another bead in.
Retract and measure marked length of cable/string.

The beads should lead the cable along the pipe's true centreline quite accurate. You can also use this to compare and trim pipe lengths.
Anyone willing to give it a go?

regards
Tom
GC_29

tricky
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by tricky » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:34 pm

"Where we are going we dont need roads!" (Doc off Back to the future).
Yes, I'm the right age to know the films with fond memory. Guy actualy reminds me of the character 'Doc'. (that is a compliment Guy ).


Now I see it in the car, it looks as if the manifold would have cleared the slam pannel, so what's the reasoning for cutting the front about so much ?
Twice as many valves

tricky
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by tricky » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:40 pm

Remco, I had to google what a planimeter was. It looks like the kind of tool an architect might use to copy from a drawing, seems complicated, but if that works good for you . . .
Twice as many valves

DeltaDave
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by DeltaDave » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:39 pm

Guy Croft wrote:What's that big scruffy alloy housing bolted to the flywheel end of your motor Dave?

G
Its an empty gearbox casing just used as a mockup, dont worry its not that colour anymore :)
tricky wrote:Now I see it in the car, it looks as if the manifold would have cleared the slam pannel
I'm not sure it would have cleared properly to be honest, it would have sat under the slam panel by a couple of mm.
tricky wrote:so what's the reasoning for cutting the front about so much ?
Why not? More air flow, more space, less clutter, easily removable front end plus I like to be different :)
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rmouthaan
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by rmouthaan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:44 pm

Tricky, i guess you have just looked at the indeed very nice but more complex versions, there are alot of different versions of it. But there is also an quite normal to use penversion.

Not complicated at all, pencil with an little wheel on it, display shows the distance travelled :). Now maybe i shouldn't have told you that, might give
the appearance that i actually know what i doing. Surely there will be lots of different versions, i just saw it once when i was working on some yacht and
found it an nice little gadget.

rmouthaan
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by rmouthaan » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:50 pm

Delta Dave, this i haven't seen before.

What are you building the car for? Street,track,ice?

Sorry for all the questions, but it looks to be to interesting not to ask :).

All the best,

Remco

DeltaDave
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by DeltaDave » Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:05 pm

rmouthaan wrote:Delta Dave, this i haven't seen before.

What are you building the car for?

Remco
Primarily Me, Im just building the car to the ultimate spec I have always wanted, hopefully will do some hillclimbs or sprints. I'm sure

At this moment in time I dont wish to post any further pictures of the build etc. I will do it in due course when the build is complete, and hopefully all in one set of posts showing the full build cycle from start to finish to be preserved on here for the future.

Guy Croft
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by Guy Croft » Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:12 am

"At this moment in time I dont wish to post any further pictures of the build etc."

Quite understood, David.

Thanks on behalf of us all for showing us the things you have to date, fantastic project.

GC

Infectus-Guy
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by Infectus-Guy » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:59 pm

I'd just like to say I really appreciate the "thinking outside the box" that is going on with this project, something that I am very much into myself. In fact before I originally saw this post i'd set my heart on a manifold design (i'd seen on mistubishi evos) like yours and i'm very keen to hear how it performs. I like your attention to maintenance too, i'd considered making an unboltable front cross member once. I might do something like that when i finally get onto my evo, a lowered member might be nice as it would aid smoother flowing routing for a front-mount intercooler. A fair bit of fabrication but being Lancia owners we're all pretty good with a welder and certainly not accustomed to doing things the easy way!
Guy
GC book #182

bassman71
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Re: Exhaust Header/Manifold development

Post by bassman71 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:26 pm

Interesting topic for me, as I've started a similar topic on the argument in another section: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3092 .

Let's see if I've understood. In the workshop manual of my Fiat Coupé I can read: exhaust valve diameter 28.300 ÷ 28.500 (atmo 2.0 16v)

Copying and pasting the example posted by DeltaDave and changing the values:

Area of a circle = Pi x rad x rad
Throat diameter = Td
Throat radius = Tr
Throat Area = Ta

Td = 28.4mm (using a mean value) therefore Tr = Td/2 = 14.20mm

Ta = Pi x 14.20 x 14.20 = 633.15 mm sq

Total throat Area for 16V Engine = 2 x Ta = 1266.30 mm sq (cross sectional area)


Calculating now the nearest availiable pipe size that has a CSA of approximately 1266.30 mm sq:

Pd = Primary Diameter
Pr = Primary Radius

Pr = Square root of (1266.30 / Pi) = 20.08mm
Pd = 2 x Pr = 20.08 x 2 = 40.16mm (bore of the pipe)

Then we will have wall thickness of a given pipe x 2 + Pd = external diameter of the pipe.

Therefore, the proper manifold for my engine should be made using 40mm (bore) pipes and the chord radius of the bend should be at least 80mm (hoping there is enough space between the head and the radiator). Correct?

And, wanting to keep the original 4-2-1 design, how to calculate the lenght of the pipes from the head to the intersections (from 4 to 2 and from 2 to 1)?

Can someone please explain? Thanks.
Regards
Concetto

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