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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: August 16th, 2016, 6:55 am
by miro-1980

This is only for the brake in period ...

Also we want to test low RMP ( 3K-6K ) engine performance and before fitting 44's set it up for optimum fuel dosage.

As they say horsepower sells cars and torque wins rallies ... torque is the all important chracteristics of en engine .

I am more interested in having maximum (flat curve) torque (of at least 200 Nm from 3K to 7K RPM ) than 200 bhp at 9K.

The 131 engine Guy Croft build for me has these troque/bhp characteristics and has practically full torque from 3.2 K to 6.5 K , while max horsepower is at 6.8 K. This is what we want to achieve in 124, as well.



Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: August 16th, 2016, 8:50 pm
by Spider 1969
Understood, I'm looking forward to your dyno results then!


Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: August 30th, 2016, 3:43 pm
by Piotrek125p
Miro, forgive me a little off-topic in your thread, but I think this is an interesting question.

GC, could you explain why you recommend to make an often checks and replacement of rod bearings ? In my opinion a 2L big end is really heavy loaded according to long stroke and this is the reason.

Thanks in advance for your detailed reply.

Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: October 12th, 2016, 9:40 pm
by miro-1980
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As regards benefits of 85-95 % of full torque high torque available from 3K RPM up to 7K RPM.

I recently rallied in the Polish Rally Championship event - going 18% up hill and - believe it or not - I was able to shift up to 5th gear and accelerate effectively from 2.5 K RPM !!!!!!

If you ever really rallied - you understand what this means . If you never rallied - it would take too long to explain .... In any case this is fantastic !!!!!! ( Note my diff is 5.375).
gc rally .jpg
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Thank you Guy, this is unbelievable !!!!



PS: Can anybody help regarding rear turrets housing the shocks in a 124 Abarth rally ?

Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: October 13th, 2016, 6:14 pm
by Spider 1969
Nice to see it going forward Miro! Can't help with the turrets.

Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: October 14th, 2016, 8:54 pm
by Guy Croft
Hi Miro!

Was nice to talk to you the other day and best wishes to Vika!

Thank you for your kind comments! I am very pleased you like the engine I did so long ago. I often tell people how you arrived at GCRE in a yellow Warsaw taxi complete with driver - with the donor engine in the boot!! The day you told me about your amazing background in Polish Intelligence...

Now I have told you before:

That GC engine will explode soon if you don't pull it and check the rod bearings, poor Ian Nixon (Lada GC twincam - "badlyworntoy" here) blew his 190bhp TC to bits recently, even broke a Cunningham rod - please read the life schedules published in my 1995 book. It is long-overdue for a GC 'Top and Tail' overhaul. If you don't have that email me, you know where I am!

If you ignore my advice your wife will kill you and you will spend a fortune replacing the GC engine and do no rallying for 6 months. Last warning!

Be nice to see MY name on your car..... no engine - no rally, if you follow. Motul Oil is good but it doesn't power the car my friend,



Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: October 15th, 2016, 1:23 am
by miro-1980
Dear Guy ,

This engine is now officially retired from any rallying until proper maintenance/overhaul is performed .

Will look up your 1995 book list and ask you to verify /update any recommendations you might have.

I am very careful with this engine and do not take your warnings lightly.

I am also philosophically a strong proponent and devoted practitioner of preventive maintenance,

My wife might not kill me but would not fund any other engine , let alone a GC machine.

After the experience of flying a GC engine - prospects of having anything less than that is as dreadful as a nightmare of sleeping n a gorilla cage !

So no worries , we will never hurt this baby/beast !

Servus !


Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: November 9th, 2016, 1:32 am
by miro-1980

The 131 was as I wrote last time officially retired from any rallies pending its first solid inspection and overhaul since it was build in 2006 and since the GD engine was installed in 2010.

I have not noticed any issues with the engine , but as you suggested : after 6 rally seasons running the GC engine it is the HIGHEST TIME.

I never had and engine which would last so long and gave me zero problems !!! But as you suggested firmly THE TIME IS NOW TO DO WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO CONTINUE ENJOYING IT FOR THE SEASONS TO COME.

I also plan to pull out the engine and do the work you recommended in the coming week.

Before we start I ask for your guidance and instructions what to do, where to look for potential problems, what just to inspect, what to adjust, what and what to replace.

I have aces to industrial X-ray to do very reliable inspections, especially hidden cracks , internal material damage, faults, invisible material wear and tear, etc.

Please guide me though this process.



Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: November 10th, 2016, 2:10 pm
by Guy Croft
Before you pull the motor - drive her up to temperature and do a compression test. Do it dry and then wet with a few squirts of oil in the cylinder before cranking. All the plugs out, fully hot engine wide open throttle.

Report results in the first instance please,


Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: November 11th, 2016, 9:11 pm
by miro-1980

Will do and report ASAP



Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: November 16th, 2016, 7:01 pm
by Guy Croft
any time this century will be fine!


Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: May 6th, 2017, 3:57 pm
by miro-1980
A brief update since Iwas silent for such a long time

I have worked for a long time not only to have rally cars but also to have rallies to drive them.

For the last five years the project was on a low burner , but in December 2014 he got an initial OK from our ASN Main Sporting Commission and in 2016 it was finally approved. Thus we launched Polish Historic Rally Cup in 2915 and this year we already have Polish Historic Rally Championship.

Instead of writing about it I will just give you a link to our photo galleries on out web page

and a link to our FB profile.

Please feel free to write us in English or German with any questions via FB message.
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More to come soon



Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: March 19th, 2021, 9:29 am
by miro-1980
Hallo all,

It took me along time to recover from shock and despair in reaction to Guy's departure to the better world.
Finality I decided it is time to come back and continue Guys mission. t honopr what he did for the DOHC community.

I will continue my 124 thread , sharing the experience in building my 124 Abarth.

Let me start with the cockpit?

Is there a single right cockpit for 12 4 abarth ?

Fiat Abarth 124 Rally Gr. 4 Dashboard

What does it look like ? the dashboard looks like 12 Abarth rally gr. 4
Simple question, but the answer is not that simple

First, you have to remember that no two dashboards were the same. Just as there were no two identical Fiat 124 Abarth rally gr 4. All were very similar. but not the same as each driver had his own requirements. One wanted a one control lamp here and the other one there, one wanted a speedometer, and the other forbade it from being fitted to his car. The car on Safari was different than on Lombard, so the boards were also different. Since not every competitor always drove the same car, a mish-mash was created, which makes it impossible to conclude that the dash in 124 abarth gr 4 should look like “this” and only like “this”.

So we have to operate within a certain band of approximation. This is unless we are making a replica of a specific original car. But there is also a problem with that, as well .

I have a complete photographic documentation of Andrzej Jaroszewicz's Abarth 124 at Guy Moerenhout in Belgium. And what? Well, apparently some of the switches, indicators and lamps in this car are of course not original.
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It is similar with 124 Abarth, wonderfully rebuilt by Artur Skwarzyński.
skwara .jpg
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The available photographic documentation of the originals is very sparse and not entirely reliable, because only a small part of the photos come from the period, it is not known which car it is and which rally. Besides, most of the photos show their current state, and this one is unreliable for the reasons I mentioned above.
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So what should a 124 Abarth board, gr. 4 look like?
It should definitely be historically credible, so it should be badly beaten, like the one below.
01 origial .jpg
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But taking into account that it still has time to break during rallies, we will not deal with patination. However, we will deal with what it should consist of. Ideally, it should consist of elements only from the period. Of course, they are rare, you have to look for them more than once for years, and they can be cosmically expensive. So, is it possible to change the type of switch that is no longer available, a modern, very similar replica, and the clocks with their modern replacements. The FIA ​​regulations allow it, provided that they are not digital but analog and are arranged in accordance with the original. You can also add additional indicators in places that suit the driver.

When building our 124 Abarth game 4, we were faced with a dilemma: are we going into the "original" or the so-called "Original look"

To satisfy my historical purism, we have prepared a "classic" board where everything is as close to historical originality as possible. One of our fittings below. In the end, it will probably look very similar, but the halogen switches in the middle will go lower because it is forced by the air supply housing, which goes under the board here. Of course, the board will be black.
classic .jpg
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However, to meet the real needs of participating in such a car in rallies for the Polish Historic Rally Championship, we have also built a "rally" board, which looks like the original to a layman, but is mostly based on modern substitutes. Below is a drawing try-on. There will probably be some changes (a different clock, etc), but the outline of its arrangement is very close to the final appearance.
02 rally  .jpg
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The one below is much more convenient during the rally, because almost every clock has its own, built-in indicator, which is set by the driver. Also the relays and fuses are on top, which makes it much easier to find a blown one and replace it. In addition, more gauges allows for a more precise control of the engine's operation and its parameters on the Special Stage .

Looking at both, I don't know which one I like better. The more historical one, or the more complex one ... Due to the rally convenience, we will probably start on the second one, and the more historical one will go to the shelf or hang on the wall. :)

More to come soon



Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: March 24th, 2021, 9:19 pm
by Spider 1969
Nice to see you back at it Miro! Looking forward to the next post

Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Posted: March 26th, 2021, 11:14 am
by UKM
Good to see some fresh posts .
Personally I prefer the last black version .