'73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

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miro-1980
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'73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by miro-1980 » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:57 pm

Hi all,

At Toms suggestion I am starting this as a separate thread, Hope all with knowledge and experience will widely contribute to its content.

The subject is basically how to build a replica of specific of a Fiat Abarth 124 Rally as used in Rally Poland in 1973.

I believe we should stick to a specific car , as otherwise the story will get confusing due to many variations during the time these cars started in WRC. This does not preclude referring widely to other car specs but these should be clearly marked as pertaining to specific year and best to specific WC rally event.

Also are targeting g 4 (FIA homologation # 635 - of 1973) the others: gr 3 # 3029 of 1970 and gr 3 # 3059 of 1974 should be used only as reference and not target specs.

Let us see if we can make it into another successful and popular thread ....

lets' get to it .

Miro
Last edited by miro-1980 on Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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miro-1980
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by miro-1980 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:39 am

So here is what we are staring with :

A November 1979 build CS0 model 1980, with 2.0 fuel injected engine. No need to add this is a US version as this year there were no others.
124 production data by model.JPG
124 production data by model.JPG (91.73 KiB) Viewed 2795 times
Why this base was selected : because this is what I have.

As I am very much against building a replica of a car that never was , I have decided to build a replica of a specific car : 124 Abarth gr 4 winner of the 1973 Polish Rally driven by Achim Wambold ad co-piloted by Jean Todt is a target

Why this one ? Several reasons :

1/ 1973 was the first season of WRC and this is HISTORY !
2/ the Polish Rally is second oldest rally in the world (second only to Rally Monte Carlo) where many world champions started their rally careers ( including Walther Rohrl in 1972 Rally Poland)
3/ the 1973 Poland Rally is recognized as the toughest in all WRC history. Out of 62 teams on the start only 6 finished and only three were classified. The other three were over the allowed time limit.
4/ the 1973 rally Poland 124 Abarths' body is relatively close to a standard 124 spider look and requires little mechanical interventions while building a replica.
5/ the 1800cc 8 valve engine will be easier and cheaper to build than any 16 valve engine
6/ because its replicas are pretty rare and
7/ I like the looks of this car better than later versions.

There will be several key aspects that need investigation:

1 /body
2/ interior
3/ engine (power train)
4/ suspension
6/ brakes
7/ miscellaneous

It makes sense to start with the body to know how the car should look like.

Some elements are clear and others are not so obvious.

Lights:
- front headlights: appear to be the same
- front position/turn signal lights ( as in all pre-1979 models with white lenses)
- additional driving lights : Carello Megalux mounted high and large Carello fog lights mounted below somewhat to the center.
1973 RMC front lights .jpg
1973 RMC front lights .jpg (37.76 KiB) Viewed 2775 times
( NOTE: Two variations: the Megalux adjustable support rods were mounted to the car either "on top" -onto the non hood black area ; or onto the side closer to headlights on the red area.) The target car had it mounted "on top"

- tail lights as in all pre-1979 models
1973 Sanremo rear .jpg
1973 Sanremo rear .jpg (30.44 KiB) Viewed 2775 times
- no rear side markers
- no front side markers ( round blinkers instead)
1973 Sanremo side .jpg
1973 Sanremo side .jpg (35.4 KiB) Viewed 2775 times

- auxiliary back up light ( small anti-fog Carello)
1973 rally poland car nr 3 .jpg
1973 rally poland car nr 3 .jpg (43.11 KiB) Viewed 2773 times
(In '73 Polish Rally this car ( #3) was driven by Alcide Paganelli/ Ninni Russo who retired due to loss of oil pressure.
Note the fog light on the rear panel. )

Body panels:
- front fenders : made from steel - appear to be almost the same (except for openings for the turn signals and vents)
- front wall ( made from steel) but a different : with smaller and "slimmer" air opening
- front bonnet looks similar but as Tom has pointed out the CSA bonnet had smaller bulges than the later US version.in CSA it was made from fiberglass)
- grill different with a large Fiat wreath badge
- doors -different pre 1979 handles and covered with sheet aluminum
- rear bonnet : appear to be the same but made from fiberglass
- rear fenders: (made from steel) appear to be the same ( except for presence of tank "flap" cover in CS0 in the left rear fender)
- rear wall : appear to be very similar , but with different openings for smaller rectangular tail lights.
- Abarth hard top
- wide wing exertions ( fiberglass )

- rear scattle
* had a chrome fuel cap to the left of the center of the scattle
* chrome hood hooks for soft top cover were replaced with thick aluminum hard top holders
* there were two 48 mm dia capped openings s to allow quick removal of shocks.
shock removal openings .jpg
shock removal openings .jpg (41.81 KiB) Viewed 2772 times
(Picture above is from 635 FIA homologation.)
124 abarth assembly .jpg
124 abarth assembly .jpg (39.47 KiB) Viewed 2772 times
Abarth assembly picture looks like the latest version of the car, but i used this picture because it leaves no doubt this was installed at the Fiat Abarth works on all cars. Other pictures I have ( of poor quality and resolution confirm this is the way it was done)
AJaroszewicz original marked .jpg
AJaroszewicz original marked .jpg (49.63 KiB) Viewed 2772 times
The is a car in the latest and most advanced gr 4 body configuration which started with 9º Rallye de Portugal Vinho do Porto in July 1975. However, this is the best picture I have with these details , and it appears that all gr 4 cars had these elements from the beginning until the end.

Windows :
- front windshield - the same
- door windows including the quarters : light made from prosplex
- rear window light made from prosplex

Miscellaneous :
- front and rear mud flaps
- only left side VItalloni Sebring mirror
- tank cap mounted between the rear window and the rear bonnet
- chrome wipers and arms
- wheels : Cromodora 66 magnesium 7J x13
I will try to document all these elements with pictures but hope other members will also contribute as well as comment and verify the above lists.

Let's get to it !


Miro
Last edited by miro-1980 on Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:01 pm, edited 11 times in total.
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Guy Croft
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by Guy Croft » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:23 am

WELCOME BACK MIRO!

G
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by Guy Croft » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:04 pm

Scuttle (below windscreeen) aluminum and sills also.

The door skin has a double curvature and VERY hard to make in alloy.


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miro-1980
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by miro-1980 » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:37 pm

Guy Croft wrote: Scuttle (below windscreeen) aluminum and sills also.
The door skin has a double curvature and VERY hard to make in alloy.
G
Guy,

This is the kind of detail i was thinking about !

Already here we are hitting discrepancy between what was and what is in homologation papers.

There is no mention in the 635 homologation papers of aluminum scatttle.
Actually, I also studied appendix J of 1972 , 1975 and 1976 to see if this would be an allowed modification.
My conclusion after studying these documents is that changing material from steel to alloy would be clearly prohibited.

Thus, technically using alloy scattle would be possible only if this was also alloy in a Stradale. I have no idea if this was the case in a 1972 CSA stradale. Was it the case? ?

This does not mean does not mean that Fiat ex-works 124 Abarths always used steel scuttle. The Fiat , but -to be fair - also most others were notorious for bending the rules if they could get away with it and it could give them the competitive edge. So I would have no problem believing that this rule was among many other ones not fully followed. Interestingly enough it would be fun to have in a replica with a part that violated FIA rules but was actually used.

This said let me refer to an original picture of the target car.
under window 1.jpg
under window 1.jpg (68.24 KiB) Viewed 2787 times


The picture resolution is not too high , but I see rusted edges of the scattle which would indicate the scattle was actually made from steel.

What do you think ?

Miro

PS: What do you mean by the still - grills on the bonnet ?
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LeoM
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by LeoM » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:21 pm

Excellent research and attention to detail. I have often thought of building one of these.
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Guy Croft
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by Guy Croft » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:23 am

I may be mistaken about the scuttle, if so sorry.

The sills (not stills) are the bit under the doors,

G
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Simon
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by Simon » Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:06 pm

Great project Miro! I will be following with great interest. You are definitely right about the likelihood of discrepancies between official homologation papers and reality when it comes to competition cars!
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miro-1980
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by miro-1980 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 1:56 pm

Gents ,

I will be updating the second response (above) with detailed pictures and basic descriptions , to keep track of what we have established to be a fact.

This way we should develop a comprehensive pictorial database of how it should look like.

Thanks Simon: I think that rally drivers were normal people and as I pointed out in the 131 never ending story thread I believe there were no two identical Gr 4 cars ever even within the same team and model version !

Thanks Guy : the alloy under windshield area: this is exactly what I want to explore and verify to arrive at a "pure version" if possible .

Miro
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Guy Croft
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by Guy Croft » Fri Aug 29, 2014 5:30 pm

Mick Wood will know Miro..

simple test with magnet...


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miro-1980
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by miro-1980 » Fri Aug 29, 2014 7:44 pm

Guy Croft wrote:Mick Wood will know Miro..

simple test with magnet...


G
Great idea Guy.

Mick is the men to know ! ( and probably has a magnet or two around ...)

Miro
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TomLouwrier
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by TomLouwrier » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:52 pm

gents,

I'd be very surprised if the bulkhead (firewall?) panel would be in alloy, being a structural part and spot welded to about everything else. The scuttle panel though, carrying / covering the wipers (known to me as paravan which is not English), would be an obvious candidate for replacement (especially if you're Fiat and you can slip some alloy panels on the regular production line while it's stamping anyway...)

Miro, you're saying
- tail lights as in all pre-1979 models / 1973 Sanremo rear .jpg
Hopefully you don't intend to go as far as copy the left hand light in that picture? ;-)

regards
Tom
Last edited by TomLouwrier on Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Guy Croft
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by Guy Croft » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:47 pm

the scuttle is the bit with the heater louvres, not structural...


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TomLouwrier
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by TomLouwrier » Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:01 pm

Guy Croft wrote:the scuttle is the bit with the heater louvres, not structural...
OK thanks Guy, corrected my post.

Tom
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miro-1980
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Re: '73 Fiat Abarth 124 Rally - project

Post by miro-1980 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:55 pm

Tom,

I has a funny feeling about the scuttle ...

It seems we need to study a Stradale well, as this seems to have more answers than the gr 4 homologation , as an alloy part in used in a Stradale allowed Fiat to use the same part for gr 4.

This is not to mention likelihood some other parts were "lightened" without documentation.

If the story about homologation of 124 spider on half the required produced cars.

Rumor has it that Fiat homologated 124 abarth which required 500 to be produced for general sales by showing to FIA officials only 250 cars -but they id id twice ( once before lunch in one production hall and the second time the same 250 cars moved to another production hall. Lunch must have involved lots of good red Italian wine ....) .

Even if rumor is only partially accurate , likelihood that there were more than homologated alloys parts in 124 Abarths gr 4 is pretty good ...


Miro
Last edited by miro-1980 on Wed Sep 03, 2014 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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