Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

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4v6
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by 4v6 »

I think you're really going to have to consider how much effort vs time vs cost the various options are going to take.
From the pages I've read through already its plain to see you have plenty of well developed metalworking skills to enable you to take this project to completion, however the choice is as above, do you go for a speed and ease of fitting approach (not to mention accuracy of fit) on purchased repair panels or do you try and save money by producing patch repairs?
Since my own project has gone through the same kinds of evolution as yours currently is going through I can say that I used both approaches.
Partially out of necessity because panels aren't always available and partially because where they are it makes no sense from the perspective of having it all fit together accurately in a reasonable time-frame to go knocking out patch panels.

Rather than remove the other sill is it possible to gain access via a punch out hole or other access point and inspect with a camera?
I share your concerns with rust removal but in some cases its not possible to do that without enormous amounts of surgery for what basically amounts to surface scale rather than wholesale rot, in that case my preferred approach is to permanently seal it from air and moisture with a product designed to do that job.

Purists will probably disagree as is their right but there comes the point where you have to ask yourself, "How far am I going with this?"
Fiddling around with bits of minor rust scale in near enough completely inaccessible areas is to my mind rather pointless when it can be dealt with via wax or rust prevention fluids injected into those areas and flooded throughout.
Personally I'd rather be out there driving the thing, something I've not even managed in the 4 plus years mines been in my ownership so I can empathise with your dilemma.

Its a truly great project by the way, its bringing back all sorts of nightmares I've had to deal with on my own project, respect for taking it on and making such a good job of it too.
Keep at it though it will be worth the efforts!
Tony Warren. GC #96.
Guy Croft
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Guy Croft »

ever the gentleman, dear Tony!

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Will01
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Will01 »

Hi Tony
Yes i do think this one is going to take much thought, i do agree that it doesn't need to be cosmetically perfect in those areas which cannot be seen.
I also agree that i would rather drive the car rather than spend all my time fixing it up.
What would then be a recommendation as a suitable product to spray within the internal areas to clean up the slightly rusty areas and then be suitable to paint over?
I will be injecting all the internal areas with underseal and bitumen as i think it is more important to have the car stay structurally sound as long as possible than only put a lightweight coating of paint in order to keep the vehicle weight.
At the end of the day this is a track car and will be driven to the track in all types of weather, plus i live on the coast in the countryside so it has to be well protected.
Going back to the rear chassis repair i think i will have to keep digging out all the rot and re-assess whether i need bought panels or DIY panels.
Thanks for advice
Will
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4v6
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by 4v6 »

You're welcome Guy.

Will, I would use products such as those from Bilt Hamber which I've had personal use of and have had excellent results.
I used a product of theirs called "deox C" which is a chemical rust remover that contains no acids and leaves a phosphated surface which can be painted or simply waxed over later if paint isnt practical to put on it.

In my case I was given the task of trying to renovate a very rusty fuel tank for an old Audi (well it would be wouldnt it? ) which was pretty messy inside and rust flakes kept clogging up the injection system.
I could see no easy way to get it cleaned out permanently so I opted for that product.
I used a whole tub of that "deox C" crystalline formula, and heated it up in the tank with a space heater as it works far better when its hot than cold.
I noticed no nasty odours or issues with it and its safe to dispose of down the drain which is a bonus.

The point im making is that if the rust isnt an issue where its not weakened the structure then you may well be able to remove it using a pump capable of handling a hot liquid and pump this stuff into the hard to get at areas whilst recycling it back around for another go.
I've seen many instances where its been used ( and similar products) and its simply pumped round and around, being captured using thick polythene and recycled until its either removed all the rust or its become exhausted, once dried out theres nothing to stop you applying cavity wax or paint to prevent recurrences of the nasty old metal scoffer.
Rusty petrol tank interiors are hard to work on.
Rusty petrol tank interiors are hard to work on.
P1030928.jpg (223.4 KiB) Viewed 17935 times
P1030925.jpg
P1030925.jpg (165.51 KiB) Viewed 17935 times
Deox C rust remover, very easy to use and has works very well.
Deox C rust remover, very easy to use and has works very well.
P1030954.jpg (159.31 KiB) Viewed 17935 times
Rust all gone ( near enough).
Rust all gone ( near enough).
P1030979.jpg (143.75 KiB) Viewed 17935 times
P1030980.jpg
P1030980.jpg (163.45 KiB) Viewed 17935 times
Tank was sealed with POR15 fuel tank sealer.
Tank was sealed with POR15 fuel tank sealer.
P1030984 (1000 x 750).jpg (96.53 KiB) Viewed 17935 times
As you can see it makes a rather good job of taking off rust and allows you to paint it afterwards, it might be a method you can use on your box sections to save you some effort.

Hope this was useful Will.
Tony Warren. GC #96.
TomLouwrier
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by TomLouwrier »

hi Will,

A lot of fine effort in a car that we really don't see that much anymore nowadays. Good for you and the missus.

I wouldn't use underbody coating inside the chassis: use a form of waxoil product that is designed to creep into all nooks and crannies and will stay flexible.

As for 'make vs buy': yes, it's nearly always possible to cobble up an entire panel from flat sheet metal, but do you really want to? I've done that more than I like to admit and usually because it seemed like a lot of money for just a repair piece. In the end if I counted all the hours and bad temper spent, they could have made those panels from gold and still be cheaper...
So frankly: if there are panels available and it's a bit more than a 30 minutes 'measure, cut, bend' job, buy them and fit them. Even fettling a not-too-great replica panel is usually much quicker and better than going it all alone. Apart from the time it takes, this cutting and fabricating is a stage that can get to you and it is where most nice cars get stuck halfway a rebuild.
I'm not advocating full checkbook restorations and by the looks of your posts here you would never. But save yourself a lot of time and aggro. It's better spent speeding up the project and driving it sooner.

regards
Tom
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Will01
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Will01 »

Wow that looks great stuff with very impressive results. Sounds exactly what I need. I very much appreciate the help Tony, thanks. Will
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Will01
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Will01 »

TomLouwrier wrote:hi Will,

A lot of fine effort in a car that we really don't see that much anymore nowadays. Good for you and the missus.

I wouldn't use underbody coating inside the chassis: use a form of waxoil product that is designed to creep into all nooks and crannies and will stay flexible.

As for 'make vs buy': yes, it's nearly always possible to cobble up an entire panel from flat sheet metal, but do you really want to? I've done that more than I like to admit and usually because it seemed like a lot of money for just a repair piece. In the end if I counted all the hours and bad temper spent, they could have made those panels from gold and still be cheaper...
So frankly: if there are panels available and it's a bit more than a 30 minutes 'measure, cut, bend' job, buy them and fit them. Even fettling a not-too-great replica panel is usually much quicker and better than going it all alone. Apart from the time it takes, this cutting and fabricating is a stage that can get to you and it is where most nice cars get stuck halfway a rebuild.
I'm not advocating full checkbook restorations and by the looks of your posts here you would never. But save yourself a lot of time and aggro. It's better spent speeding up the project and driving it sooner.

regards
Tom
Also very much appreciate the advice Tom. Thanks. Will
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LanciaNut69
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by LanciaNut69 »

Hi Will,

Great work you've been doing there and thank you for sharing the progress shots. I know how these projects do spiral on the work front, as do most of the contributors here. Please do keep the updates and the pictures coming. Personally, my favourite is the Mk I, but I think they're all becoming rare these days. It is funny that you are looking outside of marque for powerplant - and going Italian. I saw some very odd combinations at Mallory Park at the weekend - one of the strangest being an amalgamation of a Mk III Capri and a Volvo (possibly T5) - it did go well though!

All the best

Darren
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Will01
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Will01 »

Just a little slightly off topic update, today i received some nice new dust masks and filters. This should at least mean with all this rust and paint stripping my wife and I won't end up inhaling all the poor in the air.
Should also mean that if and when i get a pot blaster i will be able to use safely without choking on dust.
After the last weekend my wife did refuse to carry out any more due to dust, so this will help us get back on.
New deadline for the car is the shell has to be finished this summer before winter as the garage space is needed for one of the Riley's.
I may be investing in a spit for the shell, but time will tell it is very much dependent on the progress. I am still looking out for a full roll cage for a Mk3(or Mk2) Capri, so if anyone has info please let me know.
Otherwise it looks like I will be shelling out for a new one, so far the Custom Cages Historic seems to be at the top of my list. I don't want to re-spray the car before fitting the cage.

Also thanks go out to Nix for his advice on the spot weld drills, they have lasted much longer.
I just wish i could stop breaking the teeth of them when accidentally slipping as I don't have that much space when working under the car, hopefully the box i have will last me for this project.
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Will01
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Will01 »

So the the weekend just ended was spent almost entirely in the garage, i was knackered at the end of Sunday. All in all I think I was in the garage for 8hrs+ on Saturday and 8hrs+ on Sunday. Luckily it was nice and cool in the garage otherwise i may have died of dehydration.

Anyway things got quite bad on Saturday when i went about seeing how much good metal was left in the Inner sill on the drivers side. It got that bad i started to look for a new inner sill, however at £150+ i thought it was a tad un-reasonable for my build. I did manage to find a second hand one available at the Capri Club, however my Dad thought i should try at least to repair myself. Needless to say i spent the whole weekend just on this alone.
It may not be the nicest job ever but once it has been finished up with the MIG welder it should look ok, most of it will be hidden anyway.
The main thing is, it will be solid!
At the same time i also took the opportunity to cut back the rot in the front leaf spring mount and have now decided to repair rather than replace as all the structural steel bits are in good condition, this area will be rust treated a little more before it is sealed up. The product is on order which was recommended by 4v6, thanks for that one.
I will soon be at the point where i can consider getting the new outer sill in place which is good news. I can say that the spot welder got a good bit of use and my arms are now aching.
Take a look at the pictures
Attachments
Cutting out the rot on the inner sill at rear section of door
Cutting out the rot on the inner sill at rear section of door
DSC_0203.jpg (46.27 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Still cutting out
Still cutting out
DSC_0206.jpg (48.22 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
All rot cut out ready for some Kurust
All rot cut out ready for some Kurust
DSC_0207.jpg (46.1 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Everything cleaned up with wire brush and then treated with Kurust
Everything cleaned up with wire brush and then treated with Kurust
DSC_0208.jpg (47.56 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Spot welding in new panels to replace cut out sections
Spot welding in new panels to replace cut out sections
DSC_0209.jpg (43.1 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Cleaning up front spring hanger at rear part of sill, very tricky space to clean out
Cleaning up front spring hanger at rear part of sill, very tricky space to clean out
DSC_0210.jpg (50.55 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Trial fitting repair panel for this area, this will be welded after rust has been properly treated
Trial fitting repair panel for this area, this will be welded after rust has been properly treated
DSC_0211.jpg (49.72 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Cutting out rot on front part of sill and floor
Cutting out rot on front part of sill and floor
DSC_0212.jpg (43.37 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
New panel made up and spot welded in place
New panel made up and spot welded in place
DSC_0214.jpg (42.44 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Quick bit of paint just to help prevent rusting up
Quick bit of paint just to help prevent rusting up
DSC_0215.jpg (40.73 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Bit more paint
Bit more paint
DSC_0216.jpg (36.89 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Rear repair panel in place in inner sill at rear part of door
Rear repair panel in place in inner sill at rear part of door
DSC_0219.jpg (48.3 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
Rear repair panel in place in inner sill at front part of door
Rear repair panel in place in inner sill at front part of door
DSC_0220.jpg (47.65 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
All the poor metal that has been cut off so far, it does weigh quite a bit, this will be weighed when finished just for interests sake.
All the poor metal that has been cut off so far, it does weigh quite a bit, this will be weighed when finished just for interests sake.
DSC_0218.jpg (54.95 KiB) Viewed 17740 times
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Will01
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Will01 »

It has been quite a while since i last posted as i have been really quite busy.
Few weeks back i was at Silloth Vintage car show in one of the old Riley's then went to the US and got ill and stuck out there for a few more days than wanted. However since i have got back i have also been busy attending other shows (Moffat car Rally) and getting well again.
Luckily this weekend i was able to spend a little more time fixing up the Capri. I know it isn't much but i have lined up and drilled a few holes to allow the front wings to be bolted on.
I will maybe put together a small picture to give a better idea, but the plan is to have 8 bolts along the drip rail, 2 bolts down the back of the wing inside the door shut area, 1 bolt underneath where the wing meets the sill and then use the original 3 self tapping bolts for the front of the wing.
It doesn't look pretty at the moment but just to give you an idea. The main reason for me to do this is because it will allow much better access to the front suspension to aid adjustment etc.
Attachments
DSC_0555-1.jpg
DSC_0555-1.jpg (46.92 KiB) Viewed 17714 times
0556-1.jpg
0556-1.jpg (52.68 KiB) Viewed 17714 times
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Will01
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Will01 »

What i did find quite interesting is because the wings were welded in the factory by robots, the spot welds that i chose to drill out for bolt fixings actually line up with each other on either side of the car. I know it is only cosmetic but at least it should look nicely balanced.
For the time being i will use the panel screws shown in the pictures, however at somepoint later i will try and use some different fasteners, maybe even zeus fixings??

My main concern now is to get the MIG welder fixed as this is really holding me back making anymore progress for the time being.
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Will01
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Will01 »

4v6 wrote:You're welcome Guy.

Will, I would use products such as those from Bilt Hamber which I've had personal use of and have had excellent results.
I used a product of theirs called "deox C" which is a chemical rust remover that contains no acids and leaves a phosphated surface which can be painted or simply waxed over later if paint isnt practical to put on it.

As you can see it makes a rather good job of taking off rust and allows you to paint it afterwards, it might be a method you can use on your box sections to save you some effort.

Hope this was useful Will.
Hi Tony, haven't bought any yet but just about to order, just looking for a little more advice.
I am going to look at using this product to pump into the sills and box sections and hidden areas on the car, but should i be purchasing the concentrated liquid which you dilute in water, or should i be looking at the gel products?
If it was the concentrated product would you recommend using concentrated or diluted?

For other items i imagine i can make up a bucket which i can use to dip small parts into to remove rust?

Thanks for any advice
Will
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LanciaNut69
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by LanciaNut69 »

Hi Will,

Keep the updates coming. I'm about to do the same repair to the Monte after coming across a brown discolouration, exposing the rust has resulted in a 2 foot section requiring repair!

All the best

Darren
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Simon
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Re: Ford Capri Mk3 Track/Race Car Project

Post by Simon »

Hi Will,

I have found Machine Mart's generic 'rust remover' very good for removing surface rust on panels and on smaller parts like brackets and fasteners that can be submerged in it. It seems identical to Jenolite (red waterer liquid) and I assume is basically phosphoric acid. Just brush it on, let it get to work then apply some more and work it in with a Scothbrite pad (wearing gloves). It's dirt cheap too, about £4 a litre. I wouldn't suggest using it inside box sections where you can't get access, but for general de-rusting before painting etc. it's great.
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