my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

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Dez
Posts: 6
Joined: June 12th, 2012, 10:27 am

my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by Dez »

hi, this is my first post here, I'm Dez, from Essex.
Attached are a couple of pics of my Lada project i've been going at for a while now.
it may be a little bit of a departure for some of you looking at the other cars on here, as its modified as much for asthetics as performance. I have a long history of very low 'stanced' cars, and this one is no exception.

A quick run down-

1996 Lada Riva, 1500.
wheels- 13x7j ATS classics, ET25, with 20mm front/30mm rear spacers. 4x100PCD, hubs redrilled to suit. 165/55R13 tyres.
Converted to wheel studs from bolts all round.
Modified upper front wishbones to low more clearance/drop.
Bugpack aftermarket Vw beetle shocks on custom bracketry to fit stock Lada wishbone mounts. Custom poundage (very stiff) shorter springs.
custom exhaust based around a mk2 escort peco system.
Various subtle body mods- debadged, rub strips removed from doors and sills, side repeaters removed. Rear number plate light relocated to run import size plates.
Mazda MX-5 front seats, mk1 tombstone type, fitted to stock Lada mounts+runners with custom subframes.
Nardi Torino classic black leather steering whel on Fiat 124 bosskit.
unkown aftermarket '70s pod mount tacho.

My reason for signing up though, is the next round of modifications, the 'go' to go with the 'show'. I've just purchased a 2L Fiat twin cam motor with 5spd gearbox from a 132/Argenta (I think!) and a set of twin 40DHLA Dellortos and manifold too. But, I have a lot of technical questions about getting it all together, as the setup of parts I bought is incomplete. So expect lots of questions very soon!

(would I be best putting them in here, or starting a separate thread for that?)

thank you
Dez.
Last edited by Dez on June 13th, 2012, 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dez
Posts: 6
Joined: June 12th, 2012, 10:27 am

Re: my very low 1996 lada riva.

Post by Dez »

better?
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WhizzMan
Posts: 459
Joined: August 13th, 2010, 8:05 pm
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Re: my very low 1996 lada riva.

Post by WhizzMan »

Much better. I think Guy would appreciate it if you remove the pictures in your first post.

If it was any lower, you'd be riding the subway.
Book #348
Dez
Posts: 6
Joined: June 12th, 2012, 10:27 am

Re: my very low 1996 lada riva.

Post by Dez »

Hi,
thanks, i've just figured out how to remove the big ones, so have done so. Now i've got the hang of putting pics on here, I will add a few more later on tonight.
Guy Croft
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Joined: June 18th, 2006, 9:31 am
Location: Bedford, UK
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Re: my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by Guy Croft »

Good to see this one Dez

Check out Ian Nixon's similar project which GCRE is now part of...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2694

G
badlyworntoy

Re: my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by badlyworntoy »

Dez, Welcome!

Always happy to hear from a fellow Lada fan! In my opinion one of the best pieces of pre modern communist nostalgia you can get no matter which side of the Iron curtain your from. They look cool,hardly anybody has one (unlike the Escort and MGB) parts are so cheap and plentiful and also everybody thinks they're shite therefore in the right hands can make very capable cars which can be very amusing....look at the Lotus Lada!!

Anyway, little bit of a guide to slotting the Fiat twin cam into the Lada 2105. The 2.0 is obviously the most powerful unit in standard form and the ones that people seem to have kept in their sheds when the cars fell off them so they come up for sale from time to time (an internet auction site etc). The later Fiat 131 2.0 sport has wilder cams and the Bosch ignition system which is probably the one to go for as it will hopefully be found with the 131 5 speed close ratio gearbox with Abarth Remote . The engine is more or less a factory fit, the Lada being a clone of the Fiat 124 etc, however a few things worth thinking about are :-

If your fitting weber DCOE's its best to move the fuse board inside the car as you don't really have the room for filters with it in the way.
Keep the Lada engine mount brackets (they will fit the FTC) but fit Lada Niva solid rubber mounts. The Riva ones have springs inside and aren't very robust.
The clutch on the Lada is hydraulic were as on the Fiat 131/132 gearbox they are cable operated. You either need to modify the lada pedal box and delete the hydraulic master cylinder or adapt the bell housings and make a hybrid version like I've done. (check my thread)
You need to keep the lada gearbox cross member and marry it to the 131 5 speed gearbox rubber mount (lada one is different). New mounts are impossible to find in the UK, I have a contact in Italy if you need one.
Starter motor is on the opposite side so wiring modifications/extensions will need to be made.
The top of the lada gearbox tunnel will need modification as the stick on the 131 box is about 6 inches further back,the lada tunnels height also tappers down too much so basically you will need to completely remove the top of it and either graft in one from a 131/132 or fashion one up from scratch. This also creates problems with the handbrake as the gearstick clashes with it and therefore would need moving back...another option is to keep the Lada gearbox but the exhaust and starter will clash and I'm not sure about coping with 3 times the power,speak to Tommi the Finn (Urbancamo) he know lots about this.
Propshaft will need shortening.
The exhaust will need modifying unless you get lucky and can find a RHD Fiat 124 special T downpipe,even then I'm not sure if they had a different exhaust manifold from the 131 sport...anybody know....Guy?

They you go just a few broad brush strokes to fitting that engine a gearbox...looking forward to seeing how you get on.
Oh and ditch them bumpers,they look loads better without them :)

take care

I
Urbancamo
Posts: 317
Joined: August 8th, 2011, 1:04 pm
Location: Finland
Contact:

Re: my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by Urbancamo »

Welcome!

This forum is soon filled with Ladas, and I must be the only one who uses it's own engine :)

You must definately turn fuse box inside the car if you want to use sidedrafts in RHD model. Easy task if you're wiring has enough lenght. They've seem to shorten wire harnesses in later models and it barely has enough lenght.

You can use also Volvo 240 RIGHT side engine mounts instead of Niva ones, they are similar. And they have metric coarse thread instead of fine threads in Niva ones (that one nut seems to disappear no matter what you do, and of course I never have fine threaded ones in stock)

The thing to remember is that Lada's bellhousing is designed to fit only 200 mm flywheel and clutch. 215 mm cluch and FW won't fit without modification.
Ian has more in-hand knowledge than I do when it comes to Fiat gearbox fitting. All the Lada + TC combination I have worked, had been equipped with Lada's own gearboxes.

And oh, limited slip differentials are cheap as soap to fit in Lada.

Tommi the Finn
GC_25
Dez
Posts: 6
Joined: June 12th, 2012, 10:27 am

Re: my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by Dez »

Ian- thanks very much for that. I'm already way ahead on most parts though!

the majority of the reason I'm building this car up as I am is I'm in essex, the spiritual home of the modified old school ford in the UK! the bleeders are everywhere round here. i easily see this car with this motor in as capable of putting pretty much any pinto powered mk1/2 escort in its place as they're a miles better car from the factory, only let down by a lack of power.

I believe the engine I have is indeed a 131 sport, as it has the aforementioned bosch ignition. . well, some of it! Ive got the distributor, but the box of tricks that runs it is missing, so i need to get one. my engine code is 131c4000 i think, its hard to read but i think its a C. is there a guide anywhere to identifying the cams? i can tell you it used to have the distributor driven off the back of one cam, but its been removed, the drive dog cut off, and a plate tigged over the hole in the 3-bolt cover bit. the distributor is now in the block.

fusebox is already inside the car, wiring loom split apart and everything unnecessary binned(headlight wiper system, side repeater stuff, and all the emissions system including the ECU under the seat), and I've drilled out all the spotwelds and removed the top of the gearbox tunnel.

the old engine is more or less ready to come out, and I will be keeping the mounts and fitting lada rubbers as you say, I picked that up off the beardmore bros. I think, as their one seems to be one of the best documented lada twin cam builds online. It was also where I read about moving the fusebox.

the exhaust was one of my questions that was coming up. I've got the manifold, which is the 4-2 type which i believe is the 'better' one to have, and from that I've determined it should have 1.5" primaries. I will be making the exhaust myself (2" stainless system), but I don't know the optimum length the secondaries need to be, as I didn't get any exhaust with the engine so have nothing to work with.

Im going to make up an adapter in the lathe to go to a 1 piece prop and eliminate the rubber donuts, as I dont have much luck with them in previous cars with how hard i tend to drive. I intend to go to ford diff flanges, as I plan to use a ford english diff in the lada axle, apparently they can be made to fit with very little work, and I want to use the ford halfshafts as they're stronger and Im converting the whole car to ford PCD to take a new set of wheels I've got.

I'm still working my way through your build to see how you've got round the problems i will no doubt have too. expect some questions at some point in the future!

oh, I've got to disagree with you on the bumpers though! i don't like the look of ladas without them, and I've had mine polished so they look pretty good now!
Last edited by Dez on June 13th, 2012, 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dez
Posts: 6
Joined: June 12th, 2012, 10:27 am

Re: my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by Dez »

tommi,

yes my wiring was quite short as its a very late car, I've come up with a way round it though that looks quite neat. i need to get some more pics up of what I've done so far, will try to do it tomorrow.

the other engine mount option is land rover v8. I haven't checked the threads yet, but the mounts themselves are the same dimensions, and very stiff- I use them on the hot rods I build.

I definately wont be using the lada gearbox, they just don't sound strong enough for my driving style, plus i already have the 131 box anyway so may as well use it.

i wont be using a limited slip diff, mine will be welded.
badlyworntoy

Re: my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by badlyworntoy »

Dez

You really don't need to waste time making hybrid axles from Ford parts, its a total waste of time you just don't need to have,they are Lada's running 2-300bhp in Scandanavia with no problems! Secondly why do you feel the need to delete the doughnut? as long as its of good quality and in good condition they work fine,its when they are 20-30 years old they fail. Please please please don't fall into the mind set that Lada parts are inferior just because they are Lada!

anyway have a read of this

"Quoted message from Tommi the Finn"


1981 Lada Riva with turbocharged 2.0TC engine. It runs quarter mile in 13.4 seconds. Produces 240 bhp and h*ll of a lot torque. It uses Fiat 131 gearbox.
It has Lada's own 3.9:1 differential with clutch pack LSD. It has been like this for years and years. I haven't heard him complaining about the rear end durability.

Second example: Roadsport B class Lada. It has Lada's own engine. 1.5 litres and 2 bars of boost. Produces 300 bhp and 400 Nm torque. He uses Lada's own parts strictly.
It's one rear end/season. LSD just simply worns out. But he says, it's much CHEAPER to buy Lada parts once a year than invest thousand of Euros for HC parts.
And in this class is best to use car manufacturer own parts instead of others if possible.

If you're looking for stronger axle, Ford english axle drive shafts aren't any more stronger than Lada ones. Volvo 1031 axle or Toyota Hilux one's are very strong ones and they both have wide variety of parts available.

My mate is a rally driver. He has this Toyota Starlet rally driver.
It has 1595cc Toyota 5K pushrod engine, and it produces incredible 185 bhp and 171 Nm torque. Car has 5-speed dox box.
He is very harsh when it comes driving. If he can't wreck things, then they will probably last.

Couple years ago he had this Ford English Axle in that Starlet. Then he upgraded to Volvo 1031 axle. After that, no more snapping drive shafts.
But when you have gravel tyres and rally use, weakest point will find out pretty quickly.

In Finland it's pretty common to use Lada rear axle in those Rally Starlets you see in video. Cheap, easily available and reasonably durable. Some people even use Lada's dox leg boxes in their Starlets due the price policy!

So here you can estimate if 190 bhp N/A engine will be too much or not. And do not hesitate to ask more.

-Tommi
badlyworntoy

Re: my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by badlyworntoy »

Heres a funny question in relation to Lada Riva's for all my fellow lada enthusiasts.....

Has anybody noticed if their car is half an inch or so narrower on the right hand side than the left? because mine definatly is! I don't know if its a problem with the tooling when they're manufactured in Russia or wheather its an opretive error on the production line......mystery
Dez
Posts: 6
Joined: June 12th, 2012, 10:27 am

Re: my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by Dez »

Ian,
the axle modifications are to fit a set of awesome wheels I picked up more than anything. they're 8.25x13" super-lightweight 100+ split rims, which are Ford pattern. The offset is about -13 too, and I'm trying to squeeze all this lot under stock (albeit slighty rolled/flared) arches, rather than box-arches or bolt-ons. It will fit, but not with adapters, and the Lada halfshafts don't have much spare metal on them to redrill, hence me wanting to fit the Ford ones. I also happen to have a few different Ford diffs already, so it means I can play with gear ratios a bit to get the ideal setup without having to spend out on more Lada parts i don't have.
IF it is as simple as I've been lead to believe to get the Ford parts into the Lada casing, its really worth my while to do so. Its about aftermarket backup a bit too, Ford stuff is common, cheap, and easy to pick up second hand with a couple of phone calls (for me anyway).

I've never got on with the rubber donuts on any car- I've trashed them on at least half a dozen cars from BMW E30s to Vauxhall senators, so dont have much luck with them! (either that or its my driving style!). If I'm making up a custom prop anyway, it makes sense to do away with a potential weakpoint of the donuts and the rubber mounted centre bearing whilst i can, and make a 1-piece one.

I really need to get some pictures up of what I've been doing recently on it, building up the engine and getting the car ready to fit it, I just haven't had time to sit down and do it. I've been taking pics as i go along though, so when I eventually do it I should be able to document what I've done well enough.

I don't know about my car being narrower on one side, not that I've noticed anyway, and my tyres sit very close to the arch so I assume I would if it was out a bit. where are you measuring to get the difference? remember if your car is lowered and you don't have an adjustable panhard rod, the axle will sit off-centre. mines currently out by 7mm, but I've just welded up an adjustable rod to fit to cure that. mine is definately lower one one side than the other though- even if you swap the springs over side to side!

I'm after a bit of help at the moment if you can oblige, I'm trying to source all new service parts for my engine, but am having trouble identifying which parts i should be buying. so far I've managed to get a water pump and thats it. I need a cambelt and tensioner- are they all the same or not, as different parts suppliers are listing them as having a few 'options' for them. There are no markings on the old belt at all for me to work from. the belt doesn't look bad but the tensioner is pretty rusty and as they're an unknown quantity the need replacing.

I think my engine is from a 131 sport, as it has the bosch ignition. my engine code is 131c4000.

I also need the electronic ignition module for the bosch ignition. the big black box that plugs into the distributor. I,ve managed to borrow one off a mate, and the part no. on his is 0 227 100 014.

any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
DEZ
badlyworntoy

Re: my very low 1996 Lada Riva.

Post by badlyworntoy »

Dez

Guy Croft has good stocks of service parts/gaskets/bearings/belts/etc for the 2.0 Fiat Twin Cam as well as (obviously) Donkeys years of experience with them.....give him a call,sure he'd be willing to help....number top of the page.

I
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