Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT - > 16v conversion

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Honza
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: Lomnice nad Popelkou (60 north from Prague), Czech Republic
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Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT - > 16v conversion

Post by Honza » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:16 pm

Hello, I want to introduce my next car on this forum 8). Its a Fiat Tipo 2.0 (8V) GT. It was imported in 1999 to czech from Switzerland with 80000km on the clock and my father bought it as a weekend and hobby car. He had it till 2005 when he gave it to me as a present (he bought Fiat bravo HGT as a replacement, now he has AR 156 2.5 V6) for graduating from secondary school of industry. That time it has 180000km on the clock.

Now I am modifing it according to my expectations - how the "RIGHT" Tipo should look like!

I am use it only during the months without snow, because my tipo is "RUST FREE" instead of another cars in czech
wich experienced czech winter, salted roads etc...

This tipo is my next passion -maybe greater than Coupe! Because I spend more time with it when traveling to work.

Some specifications:

interior:
- wine-colored leather
- AC (presently removed -wainting for suitable AC from 16VT coupe)
- in close future I want to make carbon fiber coating on the instrument board
- aluminium gear knob
- 300mm steering wheel Victor

exterior:
- without modifications, after long and patient search ( it took me ~4 years to get one)I´ve purchased original Sedicivalvole side skirts without damage!

- refubrished underbody coating and coating on some suspension parts
- the body shell is quite good only minor corrosion in typical places (many Tipos doesn´t have any sheet at that places - simply rusted !)



suspension:

- Fiat Coupe 16vt Eibach lowering springs (-35mm) ,front springs cutted about 1 closing coil (next 12mm lowering), rear cutted ~1/4 coil
- front shock absorbers: "hybrid" assembled from tipo 8v body and coupe 16v NA entrails (coupe has thicker rod)
- rear shock absorbers: fully standart Tipo 2l
- all the suspension built up from new parts

wheels:
- 6"x14" Still Auto Racing with 194/45/14 Toyo Proxes T1R tyres. ( ~12cm shorster circumference, so it has same effect as changing final drive ration from 3,545 to 3,8)
- under front wheels are 25mm hubcentric spacer, on rear axis 30mm

Note: with this suspension and wheels ,the lower point of the car lies only 7cm from off the earth, total lowering with these wheels and suspension is 70mm at front 60mm at rear

brakes:
fully standart - assembled from new (TRW rotors, ATE pads, hoses, pipes) and refubrished parts (standart calipers and 23,81mm bravo HGT main cylinder with booster)

engine:
- drilled standart airbox
- removed ~30mm restrictor from rubber hose before throtle body
- modified throtle body shaft for better flow, removed throttle body warming
- raised fuel pressure (3.4bar)
- removed EGR system and fuel vapours recirculation
- Modified Tipo 16v 107 kW headers
- 55mm pipe with one straight-trought silencer "Ulter Sport" with 70mm stainless steel tip

future plans - After I receive the new GC book I would like to fully refubrish and slightly modify my engine.
I want to make following modifications:

- remove balancing shafts
- fully balance and lighter bottom end (pistons from 1600 DOHC Tipo)
- lighter flywheel
- fully prep. head with std. cams or some ultimate road/Rallye
- mapable ECU RP Lab
- target ~ 150BHP

in this summer I´ve refubrished underbody coating and coating on some suspension parts
Attachments
DSCF4069.jpg
tipo as it came in 1999 to our family
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tipo6.jpg
leather interior
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DSCF4931.jpg
leather interior II.
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DSCF1126.jpg
cleaning from the rust, new coating in engine bay & underbody coating
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DSCF1128.jpg
cleaning from the rust, new coating in engine bay & underbody coating II.
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DSCF1130.jpg
cleaning from the rust, new coating in engine bay & underbody coating III.
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DSCF1135.jpg
very health - many tipo´s doesn ´t have this sheet!
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DSCF1136.jpg
very health - many tipo´s doesn ´t have this sheet! II.
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engine bay...
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DSCF1250.jpg
rear axis - sandblasted, fitted with new moving parts, coloured
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DSCF1252.jpg
front axis
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DSCF6550.jpg
engine - waiting for modifications... nowadays -oil is leaking everywhere:(
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volant.jpg
steering wheel
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výfuk.jpg
old parts from coupe from wich I made new exhaust for tipo
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tipoI.jpg
Tipo finished
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tipoII.jpg
detail of side skirts with Abarth badges
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Last edited by Honza on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
#100

joro_d
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Location: Sofia, Bulgaria.
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by joro_d » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:29 pm

Hi Honza.

Congratulations ot your new car! I have just the same Tipo and I know it is a great ride.

Steel exhaust manifold instead of cast iron one is always good idea, i think. But, according to my understanding, that rear silencer with tremendous hole in it would be a little bit of showing off.

The appearance is great. I adore the authentic Tipo look, before the facelift.

Regards.
Georgi.
Georgi Dimitrov

Honza
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: Lomnice nad Popelkou (60 north from Prague), Czech Republic
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by Honza » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:20 pm

Thanks Georgi!

for the exhaust - the silencer with big hole was only on my coupe. I have plans, that I will make from it mid silencer - cut the big tip and weld on the body ordinary 55-60mm pipe...

On the tipo is actualy "universal" silencer made by Polisch manufacturer Ulter with one, quite smal 70mm rounded tip..

I haven´t got photo with this exhaust on the car yet...
Attachments
n70rs.jpg
simple, 70mm diameter tip
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nm-130.jpg
dimension of silencer - quite similar to original silencer - instead of location of entering pipe
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#100

Honza
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: Lomnice nad Popelkou (60 north from Prague), Czech Republic
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by Honza » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:38 am

I have to announce sad news with my Tipo.

In the begining of September I returned home from firefighter competition (wich is wery popular kind of sport in czech).
I hurried home so I used and enjoyed the power of 2L 8v DOHC powerplant. It was nice ride!
I rev. it from from 4000rpm to 7500 (according to tacho.) and often broke the speed limits... (3rd gear 120kph, 4th 150kph..)
The whole journey, the pressures and temperatures of critical liquids were fine (water 90°C, oil 100°C and its pressure didnt dropped under 1bar on tickover and over 3000 rpm it was almost 5 bar) , but 3kilometres before home I heard strange sounds..

I stopped checked the situation and found that there is something wrong with crankshaft bearings... because that strange sounds came from crankcase. After removing the oil pan, Ive found that no. 3 rod bearing was totaly damaged...

SO I changed my plans - next day I´ve bought replacement "civil" car - Fiat Stilo 1.8 16v in very nice condition.

And with tipo - I want it to rebore the engine to 86mm, wich gives almost 2,1l and push its power to magical 200bhp.
First step I´ve done - I´ve ordered 308/304 cams with 11,2/10,9mm lift and adeqate springs.. hope they will enough.

Now I´m carefully reading New GC book and making brief list of needed operations, tools and part during preparation and also slowly cleaning and dismalting whole engine.
Attachments
58397_1177140324765_1715840348_348813_3686209_n.jpg
stilo
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SDC12245.JPG
tipo without engine.. low "winter" sun makes poblem to tak proper photo
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SDC12246.JPG
empty engine bay..
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SDC12248.JPG
oily and rusty engine+gearbox.. nothing interesting to see... only oily exhaust port of no. 4 cylinder..
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#100

Honza
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: Lomnice nad Popelkou (60 north from Prague), Czech Republic
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by Honza » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:24 pm

I changed the opinion... whole 8v engine was carefully stripped and cleaned, then all the parts were stocked in my cellar.
Because I found 16v running engine for reasonable price...
So now I am in the proces of preparing the 16v engine with roots in thema V.I.S...

photo and some data from stripping and modifications will come soon
#100

Honza
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: Lomnice nad Popelkou (60 north from Prague), Czech Republic
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by Honza » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:16 am

here is the example of data_sheet:

Ive decide to note every small detail wich I put in my egine - begins on cost of all of the parts, then continues throught the weights before/after modification and all important detail, such as position and orientation of main beraing caps, and rods... all measurements are written down too

here is the begining of my sheet - I started last saturday...
Attachments
data_sheet.JPG
you can see the weights of rods/piston pulley... and measurements of crancshaft+ important note in czech regarding to position of man caps and orientation of rods....

I´ve also tried to match piston/rod in weight to get closer tolerance...
data_sheet.JPG (108.3 KiB) Viewed 6069 times
#100

Honza
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: Lomnice nad Popelkou (60 north from Prague), Czech Republic
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by Honza » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:34 pm

because of I´m still in the process of collecting all parts wich I want, I want to show you small progress.

It concerns to modification to Flywheel wich was lighened and balanced and also to connecting rods - wich were milled on CNC and now they has to be polished and shotpeened.

The weight of FW with OMP pressure plate bolted on is now 8kg and rods weights in the range 656-658g...the main decrease of weight on rods was aroud the big end bearing.. Rod bolts will be "Pankl" (not shown on the picture) bought for a very reasonable price...

now Im having pistons to be machined to CH 35mm with small dome and bigger cutouts for the valves on both sides -by this I will get higher CR without lowering the head, slightly ligter pistons and more space for better cams.

the goal is to keep the cost as low as possible with utilization of the serial parts - even modified
Attachments
Fotografie0170.jpg
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Fotografie0172.jpg
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#100

TomLouwrier
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by TomLouwrier » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:46 am

hi Honza,

It may be the picture, but I'm a bit worried about your flywheel. Looks like you went in quite deep and steep near the centre, maybe weakening it.
Could you post some more pics of it at different angles? A drawing maybe?

Guy, what do you reckon?

regards
Tom
GC_29

Guy Croft
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by Guy Croft » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:59 am

yes that bothers me too, esp if the other side is undercut and the thickness anywhere in the center region is less than 12mm.

GC

Honza
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: Lomnice nad Popelkou (60 north from Prague), Czech Republic
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by Honza » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:41 pm

I don´t have any DWG, so I went to garage and picked some measurements and by using solidworks CAD I made simple cross section drawing of my FW. where are dimensioned thicknesses only.

The center region is stock - 10mm thick, the friction area has the diameter necessary for paddle clutch OMP only

The outer edge on the pressure plate side is milled out and only 3x3 support surface for pressure plate remain - as you can see on the photo of the front side.

This design work well for years on another 3 2ltr. cars so I believe it..
Attachments
Bez názvu.JPG
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#100

Guy Croft
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by Guy Croft » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:40 am

I don't know the material but if steel obviously a lot stronger in bending (under clutch load) than cast iron thus a thickness across the weakest & most highly stressed region of c 10mm would be less of a worry.

However - as a rule - when designing anything highly stressed like a FW it is vital to create adequate radii in regions like those I have marked red (below).

I think you are 'on the right lines' using cad for the design but there is no engineering excuse for not doing specifying your own radii - the smaller the radius the greater the stress concentration that develops. Your final product looks as if it has very modest radii - the kind you get when a good machinist has no drawing 'callout' to put in anything other than that (usually referred to as 'break all sharp edges').

You may be perfectly happy with your setup and that is your right. However I consider it important to remark on these things for the benefit of all.

G
Attachments
BEZ%20~1.JPG
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TomLouwrier
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Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT

Post by TomLouwrier » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:11 pm

The radii are there, they do not show in the drawing but are visible in the pictures.
Always hard to guess from a photo, but I'd say they are somewhere around R3-5. "You mileage may vary" of course.

Nice to see a drawing here.

regards
Tom
GC_29

Honza
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: Lomnice nad Popelkou (60 north from Prague), Czech Republic
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT - > 16v conversion

Post by Honza » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:36 am

just small update...

I´ve chcecked the crankshaft from my old 8v engine and it seemed quite well - so I decide to use it (I have spare 5 crankshafts from various engine in various condition..).
Machine shop and race-engine builder in my neighborhood carefully measured and checked for straightenes and the conclusion is : no need for regrind of main journals, and 1st regring of con rod pins due to ovality of pins...

New wide pulley was modified from bravo 100TD engine (simply accomodat e22mm belt from tipo/bravo TD, but 24-25mm belt from 1st gen of Ducato is also possible to fit.)

block: lovered by 3mm , fully cleaned, removed balance shafts, plugged unnecesarry oil ways...

now I´m waiting for pistons (originaly tipo 107kW)- machined acc. to my specs... by this friday they should be done...

To allow significantly higher lift of cams around TDC, increase of CR to calculated 11:1 and considerably lighter in comparison to STD pistons - (430g measured vs. 375g calculated - after mashining them 3mm down and creation of dome, the weight was 382g..))

The reason why I am mashining the piston is simpe - comparison of 102kW vs 107kW and 16v Turbo piston, where the original minimal thickness is around 7mm...at the bottom of the bowl and mine maschined pistond will have same 7mm thick (standart 107kW has 10mm and for example tipo 1.8 16v has 11mm! thick)..

It will be road going engine with fast/ultimate road specs. Im not planing racing use (in comparison with my coupe...) so Im not worry about the live expectancy of this engine.. its quite my own development of some parts and Im trying to put together the best from factory and modyfi it to better spec..
Attachments
Fotografie0309.jpg
not too much space in garage... but engine in the stand is the basic for comfortable engine building.. hard too keep clean especialy if you share this place with other members of family...
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Fotografie0314.jpg
plugs on their place... oil pump in place...
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Fotografie0306.jpg
stripping of oil pump... this was in wery good condition..
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Fotografie0308.jpg
oil pump internals...
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Fotografie0316.jpg
assembly of "new" pullyes
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1.JPG
CAD model of top of modified piston...
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2.JPG
CAD xsection through the axis of inake valve shows enough material after valve pocket mashining on lowered pistons.
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#100

Honza
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:04 pm
Location: Lomnice nad Popelkou (60 north from Prague), Czech Republic
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT - > 16v conversion

Post by Honza » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:38 am

I forgot to take some fotos of piston.. they have to be now deburred and weight matched..

but the work on my tipo has wery little progress because of Im also working on Skoda felicia kit car (currently suffered front-end damage during the race) and VW GII rallye replica (new engine & gearbox build..)..but these cars are suitable for another forum sections and their own threads... unfortunately I haven got a lot of time to present them...these cars were fullz built fromscrath - everything is my friend and mine work... from sandblasting the carbody - welding in the roll cage- painting, suspension mods.. to engine and gerbox mod and assy...
Attachments
Foto192.jpg
at the right is the absolutely standart 102kW piston
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Foto193.jpg
overall weight of one piston is not so far from my calculations.. actual weight is 370g
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DSC00945.jpg
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PA240572.JPG
mi fixing the hose...
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PA240585.JPG
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#100

joro_d
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Re: Fiat Tipo 2.0 GT - > 16v conversion

Post by joro_d » Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:08 am

Hi Honza.
I have one question about the Felicia. What kind of carburators did you install on it? And is it the standart 1.3 engine?
Georgi Dimitrov

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