Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

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Guy Croft
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Guy Croft »

Frequency - I think - may be may be too high for a rod bearing and it is quieter when you rev up.

Check the water pump, alternator bearings and cambelt tensioner pulley.


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Simon
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Simon »

Thanks Guy, I did suspect the water pump as that is around the area the noise is coming from, but it spins nice and smoothly by hand with no play - although that may be different when warm and under the load of the belt. Likewise the alternator, although that is on the other side of the block anyway. I suppose I should have ran it without the drive belt before I started pulling it apart! I've not checked the tensioner yet, so that is still a possibility. Either way I've committed to pull it out and rebuild it now, its long over due. Hopefully I'll get a few hours on it this evening.
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Simon
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Simon »

I got back from work at a reasonable time this evening so had time to get start the engine removal. I decided to first pull the head and manifolds off in one lump to keep things manageable. After that I pulled the water pump and then the bottom pulley and cam drive, and I think I have found the source of the knock/tapping. The keyway in cam belt drive looks to be damaged allowing it to move on the crank a few degrees. I had some issues in this area before, having to replace a damaged woodruff key, so must have missed the real cause. I'm not sure that the crank pulley fit is entirely correct either as it has an extra groove for driving an aftermarket AC compressor that was part of the Anniversary package. I assume that the knocking at idle was the drive hitting each side of woodruff, and the fluffiness was the resulting timing shift (potentially misfiring the injectors too which are driven from the LT side of the ignition). It may also explain why the noise disappears when being revved as the cam drive would tend to be forced to one extremity of the play.
Lifting the head assembly off. Its not some fancy reverse head installation, it twisted round once it was off the block!
Lifting the head assembly off. Its not some fancy reverse head installation, it twisted round once it was off the block!
IMGP4368.jpg (501.34 KiB) Viewed 30930 times
Head off, I will probably pull the clock and gearbox out as one unit.
Head off, I will probably pull the clock and gearbox out as one unit.
IMGP4377.jpg (482.86 KiB) Viewed 30930 times
What I think is the source of the knocking.
What I think is the source of the knocking.
IMGP4376.jpg (423.6 KiB) Viewed 30930 times
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Guy Croft
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Guy Croft »

nice post but I think your conclusions will prove to be wrong...

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Simon
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Simon »

Quite possibly Guy, do you think the real answer may still be in the bottom end? Hopefully, I will get that apart at the weekend.
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Guy Croft
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Guy Croft »

I'm afraid that only a thoroughgoing inspection will now tell..

the only possible cause of a knocking noise from the crank front end would be the front pulley but was visibly loose. And when that is the case usually the whole assembly comes apart and the parts 'brain' somebody in a following car on the M25 motorway, or similar...

(so to say....)

I guess we will see...

G
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PumaPhil
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by PumaPhil »

Simon,

I just wanted to say I'm very impressed by the quality of your work, great stuff and great posts!

thank you, Phil G.
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'If you think experts are expensive, you should try amateurs!'

A redline run my GC's engine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80nEhsJbH2w
Simon
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Simon »

That's very kind of you Phil, especially given the meticulous standards you have applied to your Spider - it's superb!

I managed to get the engine out over the weekend, and strip, inspect and start some fettling on the crank and block over the last couple of evenings.
Having seen a shot similar to this in the Haynes manual of the 'box and engine coming out in one, I decided to do the same in an attempt to avoid grovelling about underneath the car again to remove the gearbox first.
Having seen a shot similar to this in the Haynes manual of the 'box and engine coming out in one, I decided to do the same in an attempt to avoid grovelling about underneath the car again to remove the gearbox first.
IMGP4390.jpg (498.21 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
It wasn't too bad a job, even single handed.
It wasn't too bad a job, even single handed.
IMGP4391.jpg (461.51 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
I probably should have drained the oil first, but I couldn't be bothered to mess about removing the sump guard.
I probably should have drained the oil first, but I couldn't be bothered to mess about removing the sump guard.
IMGP4399.jpg (509.9 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Gera box removed and on to the stand ready to start the strip down.
Gera box removed and on to the stand ready to start the strip down.
IMGP4404.jpg (525.39 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
North Carolina's (cars original home) 'sleeping policemen' had definitely taken their toll on the sump!
North Carolina's (cars original home) 'sleeping policemen' had definitely taken their toll on the sump!
IMGP4406.jpg (387.41 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Sump off, and no nasty sludge which I was half expecting.
Sump off, and no nasty sludge which I was half expecting.
IMGP4413.jpg (447.47 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Oil pickup still intact despite the bashed sump. A few bits of gasket crud on the strainer.
Oil pickup still intact despite the bashed sump. A few bits of gasket crud on the strainer.
IMGP4417.jpg (341.75 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Main bearing shells no too bad.
Main bearing shells no too bad.
IMGP4441.jpg (487.55 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Rods and piston out. Low comp. pistons will definitely be junked, not sure about rods yet.
Rods and piston out. Low comp. pistons will definitely be junked, not sure about rods yet.
IMGP4422.jpg (355.73 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
In terms of any evidence of the cause of the knocking, I couldn't find anything in the bottom end. All caps were still torqued and the crank measures out just above lower limit (one journal was .1 thou below). I'm sure the problem was the woodruff, pulley and cam drive - it was a mess and as far as I can tell the only thing preventing the drive moving on the crank was the friction between the pulley. This was not loose but the bore was gouged.

See the movement here:
https://vimeo.com/161391035

Some more pics coming up...
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Simon
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Simon »

Shots of the 'cheesey' words and damaged slot in the cam drive.
Definite step in the woodruff slot
Definite step in the woodruff slot
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Top edge of woodruff rounded off
Top edge of woodruff rounded off
_IMG6390.jpg (270.04 KiB) Viewed 29828 times


Having decided the crank is serviceable after a clean up I spent the last couple of evenings performing Guy's published unplugging operation.
Flushing though the oil ways after removing the plugs.
Flushing though the oil ways after removing the plugs.
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_IMG6433.jpg
_IMG6433.jpg (238.24 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
7/16 UNC tap. I found I only needed the middle and bottoming tap, as the starting tap in my set was bottoming out on the small diameter before engaging the cutting thread.
7/16 UNC tap. I found I only needed the middle and bottoming tap, as the starting tap in my set was bottoming out on the small diameter before engaging the cutting thread.
_IMG6430.jpg (221.73 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
I bit nerve wracking for fear of snapping the tap!
I bit nerve wracking for fear of snapping the tap!
_IMG6431.jpg (238.96 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Threads ready for the plugs. I won't fit them until much later in the build after final cleaning and prep. and everything else has reached the required level of cleanliness.
Threads ready for the plugs. I won't fit them until much later in the build after final cleaning and prep. and everything else has reached the required level of cleanliness.
_IMG6428.jpg (240.54 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Crank after an initial clean and journal polish. I still need to get the input shaft bearing out.
Crank after an initial clean and journal polish. I still need to get the input shaft bearing out.
_IMG6421.jpg (273.36 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Attention turning to the block:
Block up on the bench after a session in the parts washer. Still pretty grubby but clean enough to start demurring and pulling the core plugs and remaining studs.
Block up on the bench after a session in the parts washer. Still pretty grubby but clean enough to start demurring and pulling the core plugs and remaining studs.
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_IMG6380.jpg
_IMG6380.jpg (299.99 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Big end bearings
Big end bearings
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_IMG6395.jpg
_IMG6395.jpg (289.79 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Probably going over the top, but I tidied up the rough casting lines on the webs.
Probably going over the top, but I tidied up the rough casting lines on the webs.
_IMG6394.jpg (270.42 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
Deburred.
Deburred.
_IMG6441.jpg (234.99 KiB) Viewed 29828 times
That's about it for now, looks like I will need to be contacting Guy for some shiny new bits and pieces fairly soon!
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Guy Croft
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Guy Croft »

have you modified the aux driveshaft?

The fuel lobe can hit no2 rod..

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Simon
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Simon »

Hi Guy,

No, I've not modded the aux driveshaft (I will be on this rebuild though), the engine has never been apart, other than the head being off a couple of times and I always refer to the diagram in the Haynes manual for the positioning of the aux drive and cam wheels when disturbing the belt, but I could have screwed this up! There was no evidence on the rod or driveshaft cam of interference, although this may have been obscured by oil etc. I'll take another look though. Also, the noise only started occurring when I started it up a month or so ago to dry it out after sitting out on the drive, prior to that the cam belt and wheels haven't been disturbed since March 2013. Is it really possible that the cam lobe/rod could have been close enough to interfering throughout the three years and wear and tear has as now brought them closer together?

I'll contact you in the next few days about arranging the re-bore/pistons/rings, and ordering up bearing, gaskets etc.
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Piotrek125p »

Really nice car and fantastic photostory, I am a big fan of your job.
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Guy Croft
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Guy Croft »

It's possible Simon, assuming that the shaft -rod clearance was a bit 'borderline' in the first place..

Have a look on no 2 rod - near the bolt head - for a 'strike mark'...

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Simon
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Simon »

Sorry for the very belated update. Work on the Spider has been on the 'back burner' for a while whilst working on the VW (engine build and bodywork), much prepping of my Jeep for a Pyrenees trip last August, and various other activities. I've now turned my attention back to the Spider's engine with the intention of having it ready for some summer club events.

I revisited to the potential aux shaft/ No 2 rod interference problem but couldn't see any evidence of contact. But I've now modded the shaft and as per GC's recommendation to eliminate the possibility of problems in the future. For the last couple of weekends I've been finishing off the prep of a spare head ready to fit the GC race guides I've had for ages, and prepped the FI inlet plenum and manifold which I'll be retaining for this build. I've not really got time for a detailed run down of everything I've done, but here are some pictures of progress.
cleaned up head and inlet ready for porting
cleaned up head and inlet ready for porting
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Head ports1.jpg
Head ports1.jpg (398.12 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
port matching 1.jpg
port matching 1.jpg (445.43 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Finishing off basic plot reshaping sufficent for guides to be installed, before seat recut.
Finishing off basic plot reshaping sufficent for guides to be installed, before seat recut.
head prep2.jpg (434.51 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Cleaning up the manifold
Cleaning up the manifold
Inlet cleaning.jpg (408.2 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Matching the manifold ports
Matching the manifold ports
Poer matching 2.jpg (400.3 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Almost ready for valve guides
Almost ready for valve guides
Head prep1.jpg (455.26 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Before seat cut.jpg
Before seat cut.jpg (393.15 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Manifold matched
Manifold matched
Inlet.jpg (423.89 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Runners cleaned up
Runners cleaned up
Inlet2.jpg (421.48 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Over the winter months I discovered a lucrative sideline in repairing vintage hifi, which has funded a small 7x14 lathe and a press. So last week I played around with turning down the crank pulley to fit a trigger wheel for the Megavolt ignition and/or Megasquirt FI to replace the LE Jetronic. I also made up a valve guide insertion tool, and a jig for the press.
Turning down crank pulley for trigger wheel
Turning down crank pulley for trigger wheel
Machining pulley.jpg (337.07 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Test fit of trigger wheel
Test fit of trigger wheel
Trigger wheel3.jpg (334.83 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Trigger wheel1.jpg
Trigger wheel1.jpg (347.86 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Making the insertion tool.
Making the insertion tool.
Insert tool turning.jpg (385.6 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Tool engages with the shoulder of the guide and also acts a depth stop
Tool engages with the shoulder of the guide and also acts a depth stop
Insertion tool.jpg (374.08 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Boring the foot of the press to accept guide insertion tool
Boring the foot of the press to accept guide insertion tool
Machining press foot.jpg (408.68 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Insertion tool and guide in modified press foot
Insertion tool and guide in modified press foot
Insert tool2.jpg (432.88 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Testing the alignment of press jig
Testing the alignment of press jig
Test press.jpg (405.12 KiB) Viewed 29428 times
Hopefully I'll get the guides fitted this weekend and move on to prepping the valve seats.
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Spider 1969
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Re: Preparing my Spider 2000 for the Track

Post by Spider 1969 »

Impressive Simon! Keep it up.

Regards,
Charles
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