Audi Quattro.

Post pics of your car in here
fingers99
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by fingers99 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:28 pm

Quattros are not really my cup of tea -- I'm a supporter of the "other", Italian, side -- so I've only just read this post.

The quality of some of the work is quite exceptional. I particularly liked the disc shrouds -- P1010086.jpg et al. Not a hammer mark in sight! I'm guessing you made up some kind of press tool; any details would be much appreciated.

Great stuff!
GC_06

4v6
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:20 pm
Location: Midlands UK (A)
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by 4v6 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:06 pm

Hi Fingers, appreciate the comments indeed.

I agree, not everyone loves the Ur quattro, not everyone would, I see it as everyone has their own particular car or marque they have the most affinity for.
In my case its these old warhorses.
First remember seeing them on the tv on the rallies and just fell for the shape and the sound.

Regarding the disc shields.
I had a set of blanks cut to emulate the shape and size of the oem items which are simply defunct, with the tooling being made from a couple of layers of 8mm mild steel that were also laser cut by the same people.
Its quite hard to describe the process of forming them but a press (my little 10 ton one on the bench does them) has to be utilised for the pressings although the outer and inner lips can be hammerformed, which I do anyway to ensure the metal is properly shaped.
The press is useful for quickly forming the lips but sometimes you just have to finish by hand.
I had a "die" laser cut a couple of mm smaller so I could force the sheet through and not have it shear as it went, it took a lot of trial and error until I had it 90% repeatable but even then you still end up with occasional wasteage as one does what it wants rather than as instructed.

Ill try and do some photos of the items so you can see it more clearly in a while.
Tony Warren. GC #96.

fingers99
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by fingers99 » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:41 pm

Thanks!

I may well have to start doing something similar for the rear drum back plates for Cinquecentos/Seicentos: although there are still plenty in scrapyards they don't seem to last well. The annoying thing is that somewhere, hidden amongst a pile of junk in a storeage room in Italy or Poland, the original; press tools will be slowly rusting away!

Fortunately the front ones don't seem to decay at anything like the same rate, and -- as they don't "really" do anything, can be pretty easily made up.
GC_06

4v6
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:20 pm
Location: Midlands UK (A)
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by 4v6 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:02 pm

As promised, some photos of the press "tools" I had laser cut in order to form these stainless back plates and a brief explanation of how I use them so others can follow and maybe make their own for whatever marque.

The "die" part is laser cut so that its larger than the part being pressed through it, its the thickness of the material (0.6mm) plus a fudge amount of about 0.1mm just to give a little ability to release it without too much difficulty and so it dosnt tear as it goes through.
The nuts welded to both sides of the plate raise it from the bed of the press and allows the material to be pushed right through if needed.
They also allow the guide pins to go through further than just the thickness of the steel which seems to make it all go a little easier and critically, they locate the blank.
P1040121 (1000 x 750).jpg
"Die" plate. Blank is pressed through this piece and forms the inner and outer lips of the plate.
P1040121 (1000 x 750).jpg (163.05 KiB) Viewed 2227 times
The blank is located by the nuts ready for the mandrel part of the assembly and allow a small amount of adjustment if necessary.
P1040123 (1000 x 750).jpg
Blank is located by the nuts which act as a positioning guide.
P1040123 (1000 x 750).jpg (144.29 KiB) Viewed 2227 times
The mandrel part is 10mm thick mild steel cut to fit the shape of the die ( its the waste part) and is chamfered on its edges, as is the die part to prevent tearing/marking as much as possible and sits on top of the blank with two guide pins through it and the blank and into the die.
P1040124 (1000 x 750).jpg
Chamfered edges on the mandrel prevent tearing of the blank and make a nice edge along the fold.
P1040124 (1000 x 750).jpg (111.92 KiB) Viewed 2227 times
Once the blank is pressed through it aquires an inner and outer flanged edge.
I dont have a photo of that at the moment though.
The edges can be clamped between the mandrel and another spare one and then placed in a vice and trued up with a copper drift and hammerforming.


The bolted on bit both locates the blank with the edge sitting up against it and once the whole thing is assembled, a flat steel section sits on top to prevent distortion when pressing the stiffener into the blank.
P1040125 (1000 x 750).jpg
See? I also like Fiats!
P1040125 (1000 x 750).jpg (194.48 KiB) Viewed 2227 times
Then two separate parts are added into the mix. Isnt this fun?
These two parts have the bevelled edges as does the reversible bolted on piece of the previous photo and allow the blank to be pressed to a stop position.
In other words the press stops moving and the blanks stiffener is fully formed.
P1040126 (1000 x 750).jpg
Look like claws but provide a positive stop point and the blank takes on the bevelled shape.
P1040126 (1000 x 750).jpg (169.1 KiB) Viewed 2227 times
The blank then goes over the top of all these parts and another set of the same bevelled parts are placed over it along with the small square mandrel and a steel blanking piece.
P1040128 (1000 x 750).jpg
P1040128 (1000 x 750).jpg (137.21 KiB) Viewed 2227 times
The whole layered assembly then goes in the press again and the two "claw" shaped sections get clamped down hard to prevent the blank from distorting along with a little filler section from the opposite side of the left/right tooling.

Rather a lot of work but its the only way I can make these in my litte garage outside.
I have no idea what itd cost to have them made commercially but itd be way out of my league I think.

Front disc shields are made in almost the same way, I hope that helps explain how something like this can be made in your backyard.
Tony Warren. GC #96.

TomLouwrier
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:09 pm
Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by TomLouwrier » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:36 pm

hi Tony,

Quite a feat of fabricating here. You call that backyard stuff?
And yes, you gotta love a Fiat mug...

Merry Xmas, have a really good one.

Season's greetings from Holland
Tom
IMG_3871_low_res.JPG
That's two mugs in one picture :-)
IMG_3871_low_res.JPG (205.72 KiB) Viewed 2214 times
GC_29

4v6
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:20 pm
Location: Midlands UK (A)
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by 4v6 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:20 pm

Thank you Tom, yes its a bit of shennanigans to get it all to work and I could do with a couple of extra arms at times with so many parts to manipulate.

As for the mug, nice to put a face to the name, what else can I say but "thank you" regarding the Fiat item.

Hope you have a very Happy Christmas also.
Best wishes, Tony.
Tony Warren. GC #96.

fingers99
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:24 pm
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by fingers99 » Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:46 am

Thanks Tony. Great stuff as always. :) Puts a lot of ideas into my tiny mind!
GC_06

badlyworntoy

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by badlyworntoy » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:02 am

Tony

By far some of the best fabrication I've seen done in the Home workshop...awsome mate and on one of the hardest cars ever made. In my experience though they just didnt rust being one of the first production cars with a galvanised body, so I'm a little suprised yours is so rotten.The only part I've ever seen really rust is at the bottom of the A post where the sunroof drain exits?...Anyway Like yourself I was Audi daft once over Owning 3 Type 81 80 sports 1.8 inj on the bounce a 2.2 coupe GT and a later type 89 2.0 80 sport They where indistructable in every way and always drove beautifully,I only gave up on them because they couldn't cut it on the Boyracer circuit of the mid 90's they were simply just too slow compared to all the Hot hatches out there at the time. So I had to move on to Dagenham. I've never had one since but always say that could I have one car back it would be My first 80 Sport.
Good look with the rest of the resto and keep the pictures coming.

Ian

4v6
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:20 pm
Location: Midlands UK (A)
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by 4v6 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:34 pm

Hi Ian thanks very much for your comments they're appreciated greatly and I do enjoy a metalwork challenge.

Its a common myth that Ur's were galavanised, unfortunately they dont appear to have been.
The later models may have though.
I have found some evidence to support that claim as when I was acid etching the rust off of the underside of the replacement wing it reacted as youd expect if zinc was present, but I've not found that anywhere else yet.
Some of the rust issues are just because of careless jacking up over the years but I do know they could rust badly around sunroof apertures, around the windscreen and the pillars also as the drain tubes are barely long enough, I feel they likely shrink back over the years and dump the drained water inside, something that hasn't happened to mine yet and which wont!

I also had the coupe GT for 13 years and that got a 2.2 conversion and a myriad of other things to soup it up a little.
I miss that car lots, it was such a nice drive for an old un.

Might hopefully get the car back on the ground and running before too long now so I'll post up a video of it running when I do.
Thanks again, Tony.
Tony Warren. GC #96.

4v6
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:20 pm
Location: Midlands UK (A)
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by 4v6 » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:51 pm

A wee update.

The diff seal came from just outside San Francisco as I was unable to get it from anywhere else at a reasonable price.
Turns out its an original manufacturer item which soothed the pain of my wallet somewhat.
The other seals were just standard sizes yet you pay a premium for them from the dealer.
My local independent supplier sourced them for a lot less than dealer prices for comparable quality items.

With those essential items taken care of I finally installed the differential propshaft and left driveshaft.
I cannot fit the drivers side item just yet as I to source a new CV joint.

Those are indeed my feet...
P1040076 (1000 x 750).jpg
P1040076 (1000 x 750).jpg (203.16 KiB) Viewed 2132 times
P1040072 (1000 x 750).jpg
P1040072 (1000 x 750).jpg (236.68 KiB) Viewed 2132 times
I spent a fair few hours rechecking and torquing every bolt and nut to factory spec and then marking them in red paint as done.
P1040083 (1000 x 750).jpg
P1040083 (1000 x 750).jpg (252.23 KiB) Viewed 2132 times
P1040098 (1000 x 750).jpg
P1040098 (1000 x 750).jpg (159.6 KiB) Viewed 2132 times
I could then reinstall all the heatshielding after clearing off a millenia's worth of grime and solidified oil and install the rear exhaust box to check for fitment issues.
Seems ok to me.
P1040090 (1000 x 750).jpg
P1040090 (1000 x 750).jpg (194.25 KiB) Viewed 2132 times
Definitely getting there, and my parts list has shrunk enormously.
Tony Warren. GC #96.

badlyworntoy

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by badlyworntoy » Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:00 pm

Bumping for updates tony.......how you getting on?

4v6
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:20 pm
Location: Midlands UK (A)
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by 4v6 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:55 pm

Hi Ian thanks for asking.
Ive noticed your project is coming along very nicely though and yes, you will be mobile before me!
I havent had much time to do anything on my project as another engine build has landed in the garage and taken all my space, but I will be buying some remaining rear suspension items shortly and some exhaust tubing and bends to enable the car to go "ramps free" for the first time in over 2 years, then things should start to get interesting....
Tony Warren. GC #96.

4v6
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:20 pm
Location: Midlands UK (A)
Contact:

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by 4v6 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:11 pm

Well yesterday evening marked something of a milestone.
I had previously wired in the ecu some moths ago but had no way to check its functionality, so after consulting with the wiring diagram I decided to dispense with the main relay and power it directly ( all fused circuits mind you) and see if it was giving a controlled spark.
Bear in mind at this point in time the car has no functional exhaust, cooling system or fuel system, so in the tradition of backyard mechanics across the world it received just a small squirt of fuel in the intake to check to see if it would ahem, "fire up the quattro".
Nothing initially happened but the addition of a pair of ear plugs was rather appreciated when a colossal backfire manifested itself right out of the intake.
A few more attempts and the same thing occured only not quite so dramatically, so I was at least happy that the installation of the wiring was satisfactory and that the ecu was interpreting the signals from cam, crank and engine speed sensors as it should.
A nagging doubt regarding the flywheel ( mines from a 200 turbo 1B engine and a one year only model) specifically its timing pin made itself known as I was wondering if it did indeed have that timing pin in the correct position, which could well have accounted for the backfire, had it been wrong of course.
Checking it some months...years? back confirmed it was as it should be with the original dual mass item thats not present on these cars but fitted to the later urS6 models so that thought evaporated fairly quickly.
Checking the wiring diagram suggested all was well, but I wondered whether or not the power output stages that power the ignition coils were fitted on their correct respective terminals.
A quick swapover of the two outputs and the engine fired and ran for the first time in 3 years.
Ok, it only ran for a couple of seconds on the vapours in the manifold but it ran smoothly and proved the wiring was now correct.
So now the ecu has to be sent away to have the factory immobilisation defeated and then it can be refitted for good along with that main relay.
The next time it runs it will be for a a lot longer as the rest of the systems will also be connected up.

Oh yes, rear suspension components were also completed a while ago, along with the majority of the fuel lines, very definitely edging towards a day of completion.

Youtube video here, apologies for me whoop whooping I got a little excited.
Permission gained as per the site protocols.

http://youtu.be/gWYAb9Gqql0
Tony Warren. GC #96.

tricky
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:41 pm

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by tricky » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:52 pm

It does sound like the beginings of a healthy runner ! Well done all round
Twice as many valves

LanciaNut69
Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:45 am
Location: Newbury, UK

Re: Audi Quattro.

Post by LanciaNut69 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:48 pm

Whoop whoop indeed! Well done for getting to that milestone - it's a great incentive to take the final steps to being back on the road again.

thank you

Darren
__________
Book #435

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests