Peugeot 205 rwd 1800 Twincam

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robmk5
Posts: 4
Joined: September 7th, 2008, 9:09 pm

Peugeot 205 rwd 1800 Twincam

Post by robmk5 »

Hello,

I am a newcomer to the site- registered in Autumn last year after a very helpful phone conversation with GC on the subject of Twin-cam oil systems, but literally had no time to post any details of the car due to running out of time building it. The back story is this: At the end of 2008 the Motor Sports Association regulations governing eligibility of Category 3 rally cars was due to change and, in the process, would put my creation outside of those new regs, mainly (but not only) because its drivetrain is carried on structure made from aluminium alloy. The 2009 regs require all structure to be ferrous, including any newly introduced material used as part of the chassis. There are several other changes besides this.

So anyway, last week after the phone calls, inspections, debit card transactions and weighbridge and dyno reports (and not forgetting an unprecedented relaxation of the December 31st 2008 deadline- due to there being no Technical Commissioners available to do an inspection in December!) the car has been granted its MSA National Category 3 Rally Car status and I finally have the paperwork to prove it- to myself, frankly! It has the dubious distinction of being the last ever car to become a Cat 3 rally car under the old regs. I have 3 years of competing in it before it must be rebuilt to the new regs (by 31st December 2011) or be retired off. By the way, this rule change came in in 2007.

The car is basically a standard 1.6 Peugeot 205 gti with the original engine removed and a proper engine put in the back driving the correct pair wheels (for somebody who grew up with Mk1/2 Escorts, Chevettes and Mantas). The engine is a Fiat 1800 twin cam, longitudinally mounted driving a Hewland Mk9 (formula 3) transaxle gearbox. I bought the car in 2000 after securing some space in a friend's workshop. I have had the short motor and head since 1999. Given these timescales it looks like it has taken at least 8 years to build this car. I can't give any excuses- it has! Well ok, my one excuse is that I spend a lot of time out of the country for work. When I got back to the UK from my last contract (Sweden) it was late March 2008 and the car was still just a bare shell, with only the drivetrain mounting structure completed. Apart from building up of the short motor and cylinder head, flywheel machining, driveshaft/rear hub machining and gearbox rebuild the project has been a one man task which I didn't actually begin until late 2001 after finishing a 6 month contract in Germany. It was during that 6 months that the basic design was done to establish the method of mounting the drivetrain- all drawn on the back of Boeing 747 maintenance manual print-outs (waste not- want not)!

Anybody still awake can have a look at some pictures!
Probably best to look at a nice picture of the car at its best- finished. The truth is there's no such thing as 'finished' with something like this. Learning curves are exponential and never actually level out to horizontal! Mine is still quite steep. There's a long list of things that need doing before any competing can be done.
Probably best to look at a nice picture of the car at its best- finished. The truth is there's no such thing as 'finished' with something like this. Learning curves are exponential and never actually level out to horizontal! Mine is still quite steep. There's a long list of things that need doing before any competing can be done.
SRVID Form 011.jpg (28.65 KiB) Viewed 12447 times
The wheelbase is about 40mm longer than standard, the opportunity was there to do that without much hassle. The idea was to preserve the aspect ratio of the wheelbase:track and at the same time add some loading on the front axle. The final weight distribution is approx. 47% front:53% rear with nobody aboard. To be honest, such good balance is a bit flukey as I didn't know to any high degree of accuracy just where and how many kilogrammes all the extra bits and bobs were going to end up. The thing with designing suspension is that the datum you have to start with is a guesstimate- final mass of car and weight distribution (and height of centre of mass above ground). None of that is known until it's built, which is after the suspension is done! So to stop the 'chicken and egg' scenario you have to take a leap of faith which then takes away those initial variables so you can specify geometry, spring heights/rates and linkage lengths. But it is still a guess! Making a prototype makes the next guess better, but that's all. So basically, I was lucky!
The wheelbase is about 40mm longer than standard, the opportunity was there to do that without much hassle. The idea was to preserve the aspect ratio of the wheelbase:track and at the same time add some loading on the front axle. The final weight distribution is approx. 47% front:53% rear with nobody aboard. To be honest, such good balance is a bit flukey as I didn't know to any high degree of accuracy just where and how many kilogrammes all the extra bits and bobs were going to end up. The thing with designing suspension is that the datum you have to start with is a guesstimate- final mass of car and weight distribution (and height of centre of mass above ground). None of that is known until it's built, which is after the suspension is done! So to stop the 'chicken and egg' scenario you have to take a leap of faith which then takes away those initial variables so you can specify geometry, spring heights/rates and linkage lengths. But it is still a guess! Making a prototype makes the next guess better, but that's all. So basically, I was lucky!
SRVID Form 017.jpg (21.43 KiB) Viewed 12447 times
Turrets were air-chiselled off a VW Golf gti Mk2 some years ago and kept for the time when the rest of the engine/gearbox mounting assembly was built up enough to incorporate it. VW golf turrets were used, as front suspension struts and hub carriers from that car were chosen as the simplest way to make it work. Turns out I was wrong! The zinc-primered folded sheet is 2mm mild steel and the material joining that to the transverse angles is titanium. The main reason for using this is that I had a plentiful supply of it where I work so it seemed rude not to!
Turrets were air-chiselled off a VW Golf gti Mk2 some years ago and kept for the time when the rest of the engine/gearbox mounting assembly was built up enough to incorporate it. VW golf turrets were used, as front suspension struts and hub carriers from that car were chosen as the simplest way to make it work. Turns out I was wrong! The zinc-primered folded sheet is 2mm mild steel and the material joining that to the transverse angles is titanium. The main reason for using this is that I had a plentiful supply of it where I work so it seemed rude not to!
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If you're using front hub carriers from another car as the rear hub carriers, you need to find a way of controlling the steering arm. It was always an idea of mine to make use of bump-steer effect on this car by allowing adjustable inboard track control arm mounting height to vary the amount of bump-steer or even reverse it from toe-out to toe-in and vice versa. As the outside wheel loads up on cornering it moves further into the arch and the wishbone moves through its own arc while the track control arm does its own thing. If you can make both those arcs bisect (looking through the car from the back) at different heights, depending on just the inboard track control arm pivot height, then you can choose whether you want toe-out bump steer or toe-in bump steer which either reduces yaw stability or increases it respectively. Tight and twisty=toe-out, high speed venues=toe in. We'll see...
If you're using front hub carriers from another car as the rear hub carriers, you need to find a way of controlling the steering arm. It was always an idea of mine to make use of bump-steer effect on this car by allowing adjustable inboard track control arm mounting height to vary the amount of bump-steer or even reverse it from toe-out to toe-in and vice versa. As the outside wheel loads up on cornering it moves further into the arch and the wishbone moves through its own arc while the track control arm does its own thing. If you can make both those arcs bisect (looking through the car from the back) at different heights, depending on just the inboard track control arm pivot height, then you can choose whether you want toe-out bump steer or toe-in bump steer which either reduces yaw stability or increases it respectively. Tight and twisty=toe-out, high speed venues=toe in. We'll see...
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The rear wishbones are obviously home-made, but they are light and strong (2.5mm wall thickness 28mm diameter mild steel tube and 1/4&quot; thick plate to carry VW Golf mk2 balljoint). Bushes inboard are metalastic and allow virtually no relative movement except to isolate vibration. They last for ages aswell. The engine and gearbox also use bigger versions of these bushes for mounting. It gets loud enough on forest stages with the stones hitting the floor.<br /><br />The longitudinal beams carrying the drivetrain are aluminium alloy and are assembled using an aluminium shim packer to clear the radius at the web, then a 0.100&quot; aluminium plate, then a 0.050&quot; titanium sheet. On the outside of the flanges are bolted aluminium straps with titanium doublers. There are 4 joints altogether and these assemblies took about a month to make. The crank in the shape is for driveshaft access- obviously. It's not high tech but it is strong, light and rigid. The whole cradle structure including forward transverse box is less than 15kg.
The rear wishbones are obviously home-made, but they are light and strong (2.5mm wall thickness 28mm diameter mild steel tube and 1/4" thick plate to carry VW Golf mk2 balljoint). Bushes inboard are metalastic and allow virtually no relative movement except to isolate vibration. They last for ages aswell. The engine and gearbox also use bigger versions of these bushes for mounting. It gets loud enough on forest stages with the stones hitting the floor.

The longitudinal beams carrying the drivetrain are aluminium alloy and are assembled using an aluminium shim packer to clear the radius at the web, then a 0.100" aluminium plate, then a 0.050" titanium sheet. On the outside of the flanges are bolted aluminium straps with titanium doublers. There are 4 joints altogether and these assemblies took about a month to make. The crank in the shape is for driveshaft access- obviously. It's not high tech but it is strong, light and rigid. The whole cradle structure including forward transverse box is less than 15kg.
205rwd 024.jpg (30.43 KiB) Viewed 12449 times
This one shows the gear linkage, among other things. Until you have to make a gear linkage that goes about 2 metres back from the stick, you just take gear changes for granted. I ended up making two linkages because the first one simply didn't work. That was a week of fabrication and time on a friend's lathe wasted. and there wasn't any spare time left! I had actually been looking forward to making the linkage, too. The problem was that the accumulated backlash in the 4 universal joints needed to clear the engine caused too much lost motion across the gate and with the gear stick mounted in a rose joint that didn't allow that much rotation it was never going to work. I had to eat humble pie and 'borrow' the principle used by single seaters. It has worked for them for decades so why try to re-invent the wheel?
This one shows the gear linkage, among other things. Until you have to make a gear linkage that goes about 2 metres back from the stick, you just take gear changes for granted. I ended up making two linkages because the first one simply didn't work. That was a week of fabrication and time on a friend's lathe wasted. and there wasn't any spare time left! I had actually been looking forward to making the linkage, too. The problem was that the accumulated backlash in the 4 universal joints needed to clear the engine caused too much lost motion across the gate and with the gear stick mounted in a rose joint that didn't allow that much rotation it was never going to work. I had to eat humble pie and 'borrow' the principle used by single seaters. It has worked for them for decades so why try to re-invent the wheel?
august to sept 2008 025.jpg (38.24 KiB) Viewed 12445 times
So, with humble pie repeating on me, here's the one that didn't work. I made the mistake of thinking it was easy. Well, it's engineering and it doesn't work, just assuming stuff. I made the assumption that the total rotation at the selector rod (across the gate) was very small- I didn't actually measure it. So I spent a week going up a blind alley. If nothing else, it taught me to be patient and thorough even (or especially) when time is putting the pressure on. At this point in the project I was really beginning to think I wasn't going to be ready in time. This was October and I still had the entire wiring loom to make, the ignition system to buy and make, the cooling system to make, the fuel system to make, the exhaust system to make, the firewall to install, the fire extinguisher to buy and fit, the seats and harnesses to buy and fit, the pedal box and brake system to make, the floor under the rear section to re-instate... I spent the next 3 months not going home until after midnight!
So, with humble pie repeating on me, here's the one that didn't work. I made the mistake of thinking it was easy. Well, it's engineering and it doesn't work, just assuming stuff. I made the assumption that the total rotation at the selector rod (across the gate) was very small- I didn't actually measure it. So I spent a week going up a blind alley. If nothing else, it taught me to be patient and thorough even (or especially) when time is putting the pressure on. At this point in the project I was really beginning to think I wasn't going to be ready in time. This was October and I still had the entire wiring loom to make, the ignition system to buy and make, the cooling system to make, the fuel system to make, the exhaust system to make, the firewall to install, the fire extinguisher to buy and fit, the seats and harnesses to buy and fit, the pedal box and brake system to make, the floor under the rear section to re-instate... I spent the next 3 months not going home until after midnight!
august to sept 2008 037.jpg (30.8 KiB) Viewed 12444 times
5 days later and this one just about worked. The universal joints bought from USA as they were cheaper are designed to rotate at speed. The way I wanted to use them didn't involve rotating through much of an angle but the backlash- which would have been of little consequence in a spinning assembly was adding lots of motion at the gearstick so it was time to drill and tap grub screws in place of the shafts running through the spiders and make them a really close fit. Higher friction wasn't an issue here, losing all the backlash was. It really worked well, despite nearly losing one joint when a momentary loss in concentration by me broke the end of a tap in a drilling.
5 days later and this one just about worked. The universal joints bought from USA as they were cheaper are designed to rotate at speed. The way I wanted to use them didn't involve rotating through much of an angle but the backlash- which would have been of little consequence in a spinning assembly was adding lots of motion at the gearstick so it was time to drill and tap grub screws in place of the shafts running through the spiders and make them a really close fit. Higher friction wasn't an issue here, losing all the backlash was. It really worked well, despite nearly losing one joint when a momentary loss in concentration by me broke the end of a tap in a drilling.
august to sept 2008 068.jpg (29.91 KiB) Viewed 12447 times
This is what the u/j's looked like afterwards. I'm planning on them lasting about 3 years... The bolt hanging around above is a starter motor bolt. I'll do it up later!
This is what the u/j's looked like afterwards. I'm planning on them lasting about 3 years... The bolt hanging around above is a starter motor bolt. I'll do it up later!
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I'm jumping around with the build sequence a bit here. Sorry. This is the rear firewall in progress. Took ages to close up such an awkward shape and still have room for oil and water pipes and wiring bundles. This has to be &quot;capable of preventing the passage of fluid into the cockpit&quot;. It also has to be able to hold back a fire until you're off the road and safely out of the car. The tape used between the parts making up the firewall is unbelieveably expensive- used between floor beams and floor panels on commercial aircraft for when fires start in freight bays. That hardly ever happens, by the way.
I'm jumping around with the build sequence a bit here. Sorry. This is the rear firewall in progress. Took ages to close up such an awkward shape and still have room for oil and water pipes and wiring bundles. This has to be "capable of preventing the passage of fluid into the cockpit". It also has to be able to hold back a fire until you're off the road and safely out of the car. The tape used between the parts making up the firewall is unbelieveably expensive- used between floor beams and floor panels on commercial aircraft for when fires start in freight bays. That hardly ever happens, by the way.
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Running out of time so here's one last picture of it looking nice! You can see pretty clearly the longer wheelbase. As I had based all the suspension calculations on an all up weight of 800kg it is sitting too low on the standard springs. This is because the MSA made the requirement that the car must weigh a minimum of 900kg, which it currently does weigh, thanks to retaining the steel boot and bonnet and the glass side windows. This issue seems like an oversight by me but I was under the impression that the old regulations specified the minimum weight for a category 3, two wheel drive rally car of engine capacity up to 2000cc to be 720kg. Never mind.<br /><br />Hopefully tomorrow night I will get a chance to add some of the engine and gearbox details to this. I must admit, I have no idea how this project might be viewed. Maybe I should have got an event under the belt before launching the details on an unsuspecting world! If I'd had no deadline to beat with the regulations, I would have still been building it up, but I did rush it and I'm not as happy with it as I wanted to be. It could be better in so many ways.
Running out of time so here's one last picture of it looking nice! You can see pretty clearly the longer wheelbase. As I had based all the suspension calculations on an all up weight of 800kg it is sitting too low on the standard springs. This is because the MSA made the requirement that the car must weigh a minimum of 900kg, which it currently does weigh, thanks to retaining the steel boot and bonnet and the glass side windows. This issue seems like an oversight by me but I was under the impression that the old regulations specified the minimum weight for a category 3, two wheel drive rally car of engine capacity up to 2000cc to be 720kg. Never mind.

Hopefully tomorrow night I will get a chance to add some of the engine and gearbox details to this. I must admit, I have no idea how this project might be viewed. Maybe I should have got an event under the belt before launching the details on an unsuspecting world! If I'd had no deadline to beat with the regulations, I would have still been building it up, but I did rush it and I'm not as happy with it as I wanted to be. It could be better in so many ways.
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Been a bit busy last few weeks- sorry! So anyway, the head came from a Darrian T9 (Lancia Beta head) and the block from a Fiat 124. The crank is 132, rods 124 and pistons are Venolia 86mm forged (around 11.2:1 cr). Dry sump pump is Titan series 2 running off a crank-driven cambelt pulley bolted to the crank via the ignition trigger wheel and alternator pulley. Sump is made from a standard one with two scavenge outlets.
Been a bit busy last few weeks- sorry! So anyway, the head came from a Darrian T9 (Lancia Beta head) and the block from a Fiat 124. The crank is 132, rods 124 and pistons are Venolia 86mm forged (around 11.2:1 cr). Dry sump pump is Titan series 2 running off a crank-driven cambelt pulley bolted to the crank via the ignition trigger wheel and alternator pulley. Sump is made from a standard one with two scavenge outlets.
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This is the EDIS based trigger wheel to be used with a Ford crank-sensor which is mounted on a home-made bracket. A cheap way to have programmable ignition and if, like me, you didn't have a distributor available it was the best way around that problem. The small pulley bolted to the wheel is a cambelt drive pulley used to run the dry sump pump.
This is the EDIS based trigger wheel to be used with a Ford crank-sensor which is mounted on a home-made bracket. A cheap way to have programmable ignition and if, like me, you didn't have a distributor available it was the best way around that problem. The small pulley bolted to the wheel is a cambelt drive pulley used to run the dry sump pump.
front pulley august 08 010.jpg (30.33 KiB) Viewed 12074 times
The cooling system uses an electric water pump under the bonnet, near the radiator so the original belt driven pump on the engine has had the impellor removed and is only used to get coolant into the engine.
The cooling system uses an electric water pump under the bonnet, near the radiator so the original belt driven pump on the engine has had the impellor removed and is only used to get coolant into the engine.
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Picture of the ex-engine bay showing the new water pump. For anyone thinking of using one of these pumps, I can give one really good bit of advice- Mount it as low as possible in the car and at least at the same height as the radiator bottom hose. That way, instead of not working, it suddenly works extremely well!
Picture of the ex-engine bay showing the new water pump. For anyone thinking of using one of these pumps, I can give one really good bit of advice- Mount it as low as possible in the car and at least at the same height as the radiator bottom hose. That way, instead of not working, it suddenly works extremely well!
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Alternator is in a temporary location but I haven't quite worked out anywhere else to put it yet! With a decent strong skid- plate fabricated for it it may stay there. A very close eye is going to be kept on it during events!
Alternator is in a temporary location but I haven't quite worked out anywhere else to put it yet! With a decent strong skid- plate fabricated for it it may stay there. A very close eye is going to be kept on it during events!
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The flywheel is made from EN40B steel and was quite expensive mainly as the ring-gear was machined into it. Could have been even more expensive if I hadn't spent a month designing it. It needed to be a one-off part as the gearbox bellhousing is too small for a standard flywheel and starter to fit inside. As usual with this project there turned out to be only one possible position for the starter pinion around the flywheel after measuring and re-measuring (repeat to fade..) the assembly. There was a certain element of relief when the engine successfully turned over on the button.
The flywheel is made from EN40B steel and was quite expensive mainly as the ring-gear was machined into it. Could have been even more expensive if I hadn't spent a month designing it. It needed to be a one-off part as the gearbox bellhousing is too small for a standard flywheel and starter to fit inside. As usual with this project there turned out to be only one possible position for the starter pinion around the flywheel after measuring and re-measuring (repeat to fade..) the assembly. There was a certain element of relief when the engine successfully turned over on the button.
205 rwd flywheel 003.jpg (22.87 KiB) Viewed 12075 times
The dowels are cut-down high tensile (12.9) M10 bolts. The outer holes are for a 7 1/4 inch clutch and the raised ring is for clutch cover attachment bolt head retention.
The dowels are cut-down high tensile (12.9) M10 bolts. The outer holes are for a 7 1/4 inch clutch and the raised ring is for clutch cover attachment bolt head retention.
205 rwd flywheel 002.jpg (28.12 KiB) Viewed 12076 times
The starter motor pinion diameter is about 4mm bigger than its front bearing housing so a way had to be found for getting the 13 teeth of the cog through a hole in the adaptor plate that is 4mm smaller! Filing out the hole at the tooth positions and leaving the rest alone allowed the starter to be fitted and removed without major bellhousing gyneacology and preserves enough of a bearing surface to keep stresses low. The adaptor plate is 6.5mm thick 7075-T6 aluminium alloy. On the Fiat block this plate forms the rear closure for the cooling gallery, doing away with the steel plate originally used.
The starter motor pinion diameter is about 4mm bigger than its front bearing housing so a way had to be found for getting the 13 teeth of the cog through a hole in the adaptor plate that is 4mm smaller! Filing out the hole at the tooth positions and leaving the rest alone allowed the starter to be fitted and removed without major bellhousing gyneacology and preserves enough of a bearing surface to keep stresses low. The adaptor plate is 6.5mm thick 7075-T6 aluminium alloy. On the Fiat block this plate forms the rear closure for the cooling gallery, doing away with the steel plate originally used.
205rwd 001.jpg (40.52 KiB) Viewed 12074 times
The engine/gearbox adaptor assembly uses a 2&quot; deep Ford-Hewland alloy adaptor as well as the T6 plate which puts the input shaft in the right position for the crank spigot bearing. You can just see the starter pinion at the 10 o'clock position behind the flywheel. Couldn't use the most obvious position (Ford layout) in the housing as there was an existing gearbox attachment lug on the block in the way. It's almost as if I'm trying to make it more difficult for myself...
The engine/gearbox adaptor assembly uses a 2" deep Ford-Hewland alloy adaptor as well as the T6 plate which puts the input shaft in the right position for the crank spigot bearing. You can just see the starter pinion at the 10 o'clock position behind the flywheel. Couldn't use the most obvious position (Ford layout) in the housing as there was an existing gearbox attachment lug on the block in the way. It's almost as if I'm trying to make it more difficult for myself...
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This was during one of many trial fits to make sure the whole arrangement worked together. At this point, the gearbox had not been stripped down and fitted with the 5 speed Mk5 gearset and new crownwheel and pinion, so it still had 4 speed gears with a smaller 7/8&quot; x 20 spline Ford pattern input shaft. This meant that aligning and torquing of the clutch assembly would have to wait for the new gearbox internals complete with the bigger 1&quot; x 23 spline later Ford pattern shaft which fits the driven plates. The clutch is a Tilton OT-2 which isn't quite as fierce in operation as you would expect given it's sintered metal friction plates. The mass of this clutch is a little under 4kg and the flywheel is 3.3kg.
This was during one of many trial fits to make sure the whole arrangement worked together. At this point, the gearbox had not been stripped down and fitted with the 5 speed Mk5 gearset and new crownwheel and pinion, so it still had 4 speed gears with a smaller 7/8" x 20 spline Ford pattern input shaft. This meant that aligning and torquing of the clutch assembly would have to wait for the new gearbox internals complete with the bigger 1" x 23 spline later Ford pattern shaft which fits the driven plates. The clutch is a Tilton OT-2 which isn't quite as fierce in operation as you would expect given it's sintered metal friction plates. The mass of this clutch is a little under 4kg and the flywheel is 3.3kg.
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A picture of the gearbox after the rebuild. It has 8:31 final drive ratio and the gear ratios are as follows:- 1st- 13/38, 2nd- 16/35, 3rd- 17/29, 4th- 18/25, 5th- 24/28. Clutch release bearing is way too far from clutch diaphragm springs (as always with Hewland Mk9) but as per usual with this job, there is no spacer bobbin available from Hewland with the required length so another measuring session was done to find the length needed. A brass bobbin was made which gave about a 3mm gap to the springs for running clearance. The bobbin has approximately 0.005&quot; clearance on the input shaft so can rotate freely and match rotational speed with clutch when a gear is engaged.<br />The cv joints are VW Transporter and they are attached to the driveshaft flanges via adaptor rings made in Finland by the same company who made the driveshafts and re-splined the VW Golf hubs at the rear for Audi 100 outer cv joint stub-axles. Without the assistance of this company the car would definitely not have happened on time. Thank you Teemu and family!
A picture of the gearbox after the rebuild. It has 8:31 final drive ratio and the gear ratios are as follows:- 1st- 13/38, 2nd- 16/35, 3rd- 17/29, 4th- 18/25, 5th- 24/28. Clutch release bearing is way too far from clutch diaphragm springs (as always with Hewland Mk9) but as per usual with this job, there is no spacer bobbin available from Hewland with the required length so another measuring session was done to find the length needed. A brass bobbin was made which gave about a 3mm gap to the springs for running clearance. The bobbin has approximately 0.005" clearance on the input shaft so can rotate freely and match rotational speed with clutch when a gear is engaged.
The cv joints are VW Transporter and they are attached to the driveshaft flanges via adaptor rings made in Finland by the same company who made the driveshafts and re-splined the VW Golf hubs at the rear for Audi 100 outer cv joint stub-axles. Without the assistance of this company the car would definitely not have happened on time. Thank you Teemu and family!
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Fuel tank was getting a bit hot with the fan blowing hot air from the radiator on to it, so I went ahead and did the old &quot;hole in the bonnet&quot; routine- something I have wanted to do to a car for...um...ever!<br />It even works!
Fuel tank was getting a bit hot with the fan blowing hot air from the radiator on to it, so I went ahead and did the old "hole in the bonnet" routine- something I have wanted to do to a car for...um...ever!
It even works!
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Finally got round to installing an oil cooler. Where to put it was a problem so small, subtle NACA duct in a well hidden part of the car's bodywork seemed the way forward.
Finally got round to installing an oil cooler. Where to put it was a problem so small, subtle NACA duct in a well hidden part of the car's bodywork seemed the way forward.
heat management work 027.jpg (48.85 KiB) Viewed 11698 times
Running problems have been identified as being partly caused by carburettors breathing hot engine-bay air. Pretty obvious really, but I'd been putting off dealing with it all for too long. So an airbox was made (this picture shows it before getting the 100mm hole in it to let fresh air in), the oil cooler was fitted, an extra fan (from a Suzuki SV650 radiator) was installed to pull air from under the car onto the silencer and then out through new louvres in the tailgate), holes were cut in the polycarbonate rear screen to let hot engine-bay air out and as much of the exhaust system was shielded from the engine as possible, whilst still allowing it to be cooled by ambient outside air. As in- no heat-wrap.
Running problems have been identified as being partly caused by carburettors breathing hot engine-bay air. Pretty obvious really, but I'd been putting off dealing with it all for too long. So an airbox was made (this picture shows it before getting the 100mm hole in it to let fresh air in), the oil cooler was fitted, an extra fan (from a Suzuki SV650 radiator) was installed to pull air from under the car onto the silencer and then out through new louvres in the tailgate), holes were cut in the polycarbonate rear screen to let hot engine-bay air out and as much of the exhaust system was shielded from the engine as possible, whilst still allowing it to be cooled by ambient outside air. As in- no heat-wrap.
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This is a heat shield from one of the hot bits of a Lockheed C-130. It was damaged (not badly) and I could think of a use for it so it now appears here. The new fan sits under the silencer in an aluminium panel. Seems to work ok according to the temperatures now achieved. If you have noticed the fan blades and are thinking &quot;Hey, those blades are for pulling air DOWN, not UP!&quot; may I suggest you take your anorak off now? I will do the same!
This is a heat shield from one of the hot bits of a Lockheed C-130. It was damaged (not badly) and I could think of a use for it so it now appears here. The new fan sits under the silencer in an aluminium panel. Seems to work ok according to the temperatures now achieved. If you have noticed the fan blades and are thinking "Hey, those blades are for pulling air DOWN, not UP!" may I suggest you take your anorak off now? I will do the same!
july 2009 010.jpg (67.37 KiB) Viewed 11698 times
Inside view of oil cooler. I'll eventually spend the £10 needed to buy another bike fan and get some cold air forced through it. That will also add slightly cooler air into the engine-bay which can't hurt. On the subject of oil, the old dry sump tank had a crack develop half-way up and leaked so a new one has been bought which has a larger diameter but is the same height. It eventually gave up the fight it had with me and allowed itself to be fitted just ahead of the old tank's original position. The oil system now holds over 9 litres. That's made the oil temperature (and therefore, pressure) much better now. It's just going to hurt a bit at oil-change time.
Inside view of oil cooler. I'll eventually spend the £10 needed to buy another bike fan and get some cold air forced through it. That will also add slightly cooler air into the engine-bay which can't hurt. On the subject of oil, the old dry sump tank had a crack develop half-way up and leaked so a new one has been bought which has a larger diameter but is the same height. It eventually gave up the fight it had with me and allowed itself to be fitted just ahead of the old tank's original position. The oil system now holds over 9 litres. That's made the oil temperature (and therefore, pressure) much better now. It's just going to hurt a bit at oil-change time.
july 2009 011.jpg (74.49 KiB) Viewed 11698 times
Proof I needed a new oil tank.
Proof I needed a new oil tank.
july 2009 014.jpg (71.68 KiB) Viewed 11698 times
Somerset Stages 2010. SS2 (Croydon1).<br />(A few miles before the left rear wishbone broke and forced retirement). This was the first event for the car. A number of issues were raised within a few hundred metres of the start of the first stage. Mainly, there was way too little suspension travel at the rear wheels. Also at the rear, a related issue was the ride height still being a bit low for stages that were rougher than anything myself or my co-driver had ever seen! It was mildly amusing to notice how quickly 10 years of design and build could be wiped out without crashing!<br />The alternator skid-plate, which is actually a reinforced rigid thick-walled T6 aluminium box, capable of easily carrying the entire weight of the car on its own, had been beaten to the point where it has formed around the shape of the alternator bracket itself. This will have to be replaced with a better solution. Raising the ride height will help as well.<br />As far as traction and handling were concerned, it was not possible to remain on full throttle along straights as the rear wheels were not being kept on the ground over bumps and rocks at any speeds above 60mph. In terms of time lost, this was the worst issue of all and is basically a result of all the rear suspension design shortcomings.
Somerset Stages 2010. SS2 (Croydon1).
(A few miles before the left rear wishbone broke and forced retirement). This was the first event for the car. A number of issues were raised within a few hundred metres of the start of the first stage. Mainly, there was way too little suspension travel at the rear wheels. Also at the rear, a related issue was the ride height still being a bit low for stages that were rougher than anything myself or my co-driver had ever seen! It was mildly amusing to notice how quickly 10 years of design and build could be wiped out without crashing!
The alternator skid-plate, which is actually a reinforced rigid thick-walled T6 aluminium box, capable of easily carrying the entire weight of the car on its own, had been beaten to the point where it has formed around the shape of the alternator bracket itself. This will have to be replaced with a better solution. Raising the ride height will help as well.
As far as traction and handling were concerned, it was not possible to remain on full throttle along straights as the rear wheels were not being kept on the ground over bumps and rocks at any speeds above 60mph. In terms of time lost, this was the worst issue of all and is basically a result of all the rear suspension design shortcomings.
PhoEF.jpg (77.33 KiB) Viewed 10724 times
The main reason why this wishbone failed was due to the inadequate wall thickness of the tube material. Should have been around 3mm thick, minimum, for these kind of roads. These are approximately 1.5mm thick here. My mistake! However, by making these the weakest part at the back, it kept the damage to a minimum and almost certainly saved more expensive components. It's just possible to see the smashed alternator skid-plate/box further forward on the floorpan.<br />Since the event, both wishbones (right hand was also cracked, but still in one piece) have been replaced with tried and tested aftermarket lasercut steel items using spherical bearings for location; inner wheelarches have been reworked to allow full wheel articulation without tyres fouling on structure (wheel stroke is now 180mm, plus 60mm of bump-stop in strut), track control arms have been refabricated and now attach to inner wishbone forward pivot bolts to maintain zero track change throughout damper stroke. This was found to transform handling from that caused by earlier attempt at passive rear-steer design- which was a complete failure! Finally, the rear quarter panels have been cut, increasing the size of the wheelarch to match the new inner arch profile and mudflap material is being used for stone protection in the arches. Will report back when this has all been tested.
The main reason why this wishbone failed was due to the inadequate wall thickness of the tube material. Should have been around 3mm thick, minimum, for these kind of roads. These are approximately 1.5mm thick here. My mistake! However, by making these the weakest part at the back, it kept the damage to a minimum and almost certainly saved more expensive components. It's just possible to see the smashed alternator skid-plate/box further forward on the floorpan.
Since the event, both wishbones (right hand was also cracked, but still in one piece) have been replaced with tried and tested aftermarket lasercut steel items using spherical bearings for location; inner wheelarches have been reworked to allow full wheel articulation without tyres fouling on structure (wheel stroke is now 180mm, plus 60mm of bump-stop in strut), track control arms have been refabricated and now attach to inner wishbone forward pivot bolts to maintain zero track change throughout damper stroke. This was found to transform handling from that caused by earlier attempt at passive rear-steer design- which was a complete failure! Finally, the rear quarter panels have been cut, increasing the size of the wheelarch to match the new inner arch profile and mudflap material is being used for stone protection in the arches. Will report back when this has all been tested.
wishboness2.jpg (70.61 KiB) Viewed 10724 times
Last edited by robmk5 on June 13th, 2010, 2:07 pm, edited 10 times in total.
Rich Ellingham
Posts: 118
Joined: June 23rd, 2006, 6:54 am
Location: Glasgow, UK
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Re: Peugeot 205 rwd 1800 Twincam

Post by Rich Ellingham »

It think as you know the aim should be to be out there and competing, I am as guilty as the next guy for spending too much time making it look nice. Well done on your work, when you are off the beaten path its all custom and lots of time. Can you tell us what series and where you will be rallying?
regards

Rich
book 38
robmk5
Posts: 4
Joined: September 7th, 2008, 9:09 pm

Re: Peugeot 205 rwd 1800 Twincam

Post by robmk5 »

Hello Rich,

This has got to be a world-record for the longest delay between question and answer. My apologies. To tell the truth, I haven't answered your question yet because I knew the car was running so badly I didn't dare drive it any kind of meaningful distance until I got these high-temperature problems sorted. It's been a busy year aswell...bla bla bla! Finally I've got it to a position where I can (almost) happily take it to a rolling road and get it tuned properly. This I did last Wednesday and 3 hours after strapping it down it went from 40bhp (float chamber filling issues!) at 3000rpm to 180bhp at 7000rpm. These numbers are not particularly accurate, it feels more like 170bhp on the road, but the engine pulls full throttle from 3000rpm with no flat spots, oil and water stay in the safe zone, my home-made exhaust seems to work well enough and the airbox doesn't kill any power at all. No ignition mapping was done and the map used on the rollers was just my own hit-and-hope guess. All it's got as datums are 12 degrees advance at 1000rpm and 36 degrees at 5000rpm. Everything in between is a total guess. Also, all throttle positions give the same advance at the moment. Clearly, the response on the rollers is a sign that it's not far off and there was no sign at all of anything nasty lurking the wrong side of the curve.

The main jets it started with were 180 (Dellorto) but power kept rising as smaller and smaller mains were tested. 145's gave the ideal combination of power and slightly rich mixture at max rpm. This was all using 36mm chokes. The cams are designed to peak at between 7500 and 7800rpm and dyno was showing power still rising at 7000rpm, so maybe with bigger chokes and jets to match, there is more to be gained up there, but this is a rally car and all I'd achieve would be to lose tractability, which is the thing that has made the car a real joy to throw around recently!

As for events- I want to earn some money for a few weeks and then take it to do a couple of track days, get it MOT'd and insured and then do the odd single venue at Snetterton or Wilbarston or wherever. I have a plan to do Somerset Stages next April. I will NOT be trying to compete with Mr Burton...!

thank you for your interest. What's the state of play with your project?

Take care,
Rob.
Guy Croft
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Re: Peugeot 205 rwd 1800 Twincam

Post by Guy Croft »

a MODEL post..

I never read it previously. Full of real engineering interest and very well documented. The only criticism I would make it that your pictures are a bit fuzzy.

G
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