DIY 2.0 TC engine step-by-step rebuild with GC

[Alan]

Hi all, newbie here and my first post.

I am currently restoring a 131 Sport, the shell is completely resprayed and a fair amount put back together. (Will post some photos at some stage).
Some years ago I bought a twin cam engine from a Ritmo 130TC rally car.
The engine was built by a company in England (not GC). I have no idea what's inside but I was told by those who worked on the car that it was a very well built engine, and was built from new.
I have read a post about starting an engine after rebuild but I'm unsure what do here.
My plan is to change the belts and turn over the engine by hand, with the spark plugs removed.
If all seems ok, then spin the engine in the same manner with the starter and progress from there.
Is this wise?
Do you recommend leaving the engine intact or should I at least remove the head?
The engine is currently fitted with twin Webbers (45?) and has not run for at least 10 years I believe.
The engine has been stored in my garage with the carbs fitted but without an exhaust manifold.
Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated.

Alan.

[Guy Croft]

Alan, hi

starting an engine that has been sat for a long period is like starting a new one so read:

http://guy-croft.com/viewtopic.php?t=78

However, having seen more of these than most ('It's been stored for years..) I would caution you not to start it at all but to carry out several tasks first:

1. Replace all engine seals - cams, aux d/s, crank front and rear. They will have lost some of their elasticity (vulcanised) and - having been oiled up - collected dust and debris, oil leaks will follow swiftly..
2. Remove sump and check rod bearings. Sulphur in oil especially on an engine that has been run and then left sitting static for ages can attack the bearings and crank. If the rod bearings are corroded so will the mains be also and a full strip is essential. This is a good time to strip the pump down and inspect, look for debris in the trap, and reprime it.
3. Take the head off and check bore and face conditions, this is imperative because if the engine was left for a long period water will have got into the bores. You can also inspect the integrity of the coolant passages, long term storage of engines with water and antifreeze can cause build of a messy and caustic gel.
3. Cam belt tensioner should be stripped down and carefully checked, likewise flywheel and clutch. If the clutch was bolted on it will be stuck fast and have to be prised off the fw.

What will happen if you try to start it is rather 'pot luck' as they say, and it never hurts to know exactly what is inside your engine. This is as true of your engine and a GC unit and any other.

GC

[Alan]

Hi Guy,
Thanks for your reply.
No such thing as a free lunch I suppose.
Well, it's a lot easier to strip the engine BEFORE putting it back into the car and having to take it out again.
Sulphur in oil attacking the bearings is an interesting one that I haven't heard of before.

Is it likely that all the seals are off the shelf, or would a custom built engine have upgraded or higher performance parts?

It will be a few weeks before I go at the engine, there is plenty of other stuff to do on the car itself, but as and when I do strip it down I will take photos and post them for anyone else that is wondering about this to see.
Alan.

[Alan]

Guy, this is the engine I have for my 131 Project:

DSCF2755.jpg (50.39 KiB) Viewed 16638 times

Decided to get it up on a stand yesterday and get stuck in to the list as per your advice on the matter previously.

I have no idea at this point what has been done to this engine from a performance point of view, but will get a better idea as time goes by.

The cam seems like there is a fair amount of lift, I also see wear on the tappets from the camshaft, so I may have to replace these.

DSCF2759.jpg (42.87 KiB) Viewed 16637 times

The ancillaries are driven by a toothed belt, perhaps a common rally feature:

Belt.jpg (52.88 KiB) Viewed 16636 times

As the engine was in a Ritmo from new, the cooling and engine mountings ect. will have to reconfigured to RWD for the 131, and also the gearbox input shaft will have to be modified to fit.

[Guy Croft]

Do you fancy doing a full & in-depth step_by_step strip and rebuild under my guidance with this motor?

We could demonstrate numerous things including how to save on costs in a DIY build, though of course one must accept that the more old parts re-used and the more machining ops 'skipped' the more reliability can suffer.

I can illustrate what I mean very clearly by two simple examples:

1. Rods - I won't work with old rods however prepped/overhauled, but that doesn't mean you can't. I do know how to overhaul rods except to say that you might struggle to find anyone who can resize them to ensure the big end is true.
2. Refacing the block - always better to have it precision machined but one can survey it and dress it up by hand within limits.



Let me know asap.

GC

[Alan]

Hi Guy, that would be great!

Apart from mounting it on a stand and lifting off one of the cambox covers for a peek I have not touched anything else yet.

Thanks,
Alan.

[Guy Croft]

OK

follow my steps and don't deviate without checking with me.
Plus - I might miss something and .... am not infallible..

Step 1

The core engine is all we're interested in to begin with.
Remove all ancillaries:
Cam belt cover
Engine mounts
Alternator
Water pump
Oil filter housing
Carbs and inlet manifold Coolant top rail
Cut the cam belt and discard
Clutch
Cam covers
Distributor, cables, hoses etc etc
Take off all 'misc' (miscellaneous) brackets too eg: alternator

Chuck them all in a box with all the fasteners that go with them and forget about them for now. Don't discard anything - you might need it for a pattern later. Don't worry about any fasteners that shear off but make a not of them.

If there is any water in the engine undo the 13mm hex drain plug on the ex side block (store with above in a plastic bag so you don't lose it) and let the water drain into a bucket. Drain all oil via sump, collect and discard at council waste disposal facility. Take off the cam box covers (they often need a tap with a mallet) turn the engine over carefully and let the oil drain out from the top too.

Cam covers and nuts (whatever style) should go in a separate (engine parts) tray. You need numerous decent boxes (not deep ones because you can't see what's in them). Tag the boxes if you are unsure as to what's in them.

GC time on that including clearing up too - 1 hr tops.


Tools:
Notebook!
Card tags with string
Plastic trays from garden centres are great for putting under engine stands and many other uses.
Buy a good quality roll of paper wipe
The best hand cleaner by far is Deb Tufanega 'Orange'.
5l tin of brake cleaner and spray dispenser
Combination 12 point ring/open end spanners 8mm - 19mm
Screwdrivers various flat blade
Dead blow mallet or small copper & hide for freeing things off without smashing them to pieces..
Snips (Teng are my favourite) - for getting hose clips off.
3/8 drive socket set, 8-19mm minumum and 1/4 drive socket set 7-13mm both with plenty of extension bars
1/2 drive socket set 13-22mm with bit T bar eg: for undoing main bearing caps later on
Plug sockets 3/8 drive for small and large plugs (can be 16 & 21mm hex)
adapters 1/2 to 3/8 drive
3/8 drive hex wrench set eg: for sump
A chain type oil filter strap is great for restraining the water pump pulley (and taking off filters..)
If you don't have a 1/2" drive 18v impact wrench buy one - it will save hours on the strip. Always use impact (black) sockets on anything 17mm (bolt/nut across-flat dimension) and over.



Tips!

1. WORK CLEAN. TOOLS - YOU - FLOOR - BENCH

2. Best tools? Snap-On, Facom, Teng are all super. You might get away with cheap 'branded' tools on the strip but not on the rebuild so if you don't have a good toolkit start investing (literally - good tools keep their valuve forever) now.

4. Photograph everything you take off and start compiling your own manual with text.

5. Before removing clutch - spray with brake cleaner and let drain down onto wipes. Thus when you unbolt it you won't get showered (potentially) in asbestos dust (if that is what it is). Be careful removing the clutch - it is heavy. Don't let it fall on your fingers.


Submit progress photo as proof to go to Step 2!

GC

[kremlingazette]

Guy/Alan,

What a great thread and idea, I watch with great interest as I am in exactly the same position as Alan.

My block is stripped fully, and cleaned both inside & outside.

Pistons stripped and cleaned.

Camboxes removed and so on....


I am still very much in the cleaning & measuring stages of the rebuild.

I have posted a picture of how it looked when i bought it, and how it looks today.


Brilliant thread...

[Alan]

Hi Guy,
Got stuck into this today based on your shopping list.
The 1 hr time frame was not adhered to thanks to some savagely abused FWD carrier bearing bolts being rounded off and with very little access.

No clutch with the engine, (I am not sure if the FWD one would be any use anyway), here is a pic of the flywheel (which may also be different than a RWD), I can weigh it but I am sure its well lightened.

DSCF2761.jpg (68.51 KiB) Viewed 16425 times

I removed the intake manifold complete with carbs and placed on a shelf for later work.
Any cooling pipework and the oil filter housing came off too:

DSCF2772.jpg (56.34 KiB) Viewed 16408 times

Definitely off a rally car as these scars prove: (Note also the 2 sump plugs, I am guessing due to the sump baffles).

DSCF2783.jpg (47.68 KiB) Viewed 16404 times

This is why its best to use the advice of Guy Croft and strip back a long standing engine:

DSCF2778.jpg (50.55 KiB) Viewed 16404 times

The water pump was seized solid. There is also some burring on the front of the drive pulley (obviously from contact with part of the car after a prang).

Much debris (rusty cack) is throughout the engine cooling system. This certainly would not enhance the effectiveness of the engine cooling in any way:

DSCF2777.jpg (49.88 KiB) Viewed 16400 times

Sump off next (not sure why, but the 4 screws on either end of the engine are Allen, the rest are hex).

DSCF2785.jpg (60.77 KiB) Viewed 16399 times

Inside of both camboxes absolutely pristine, must have used decent oil:

DSCF2788.jpg (47.66 KiB) Viewed 16401 times

Both camboxes off next. Watch the tappets when lifting off the cambox, they come out easily and may slide out and hit the floor.

DSCF2791.jpg (48.62 KiB) Viewed 16390 times

Whilst not the best pic, the brown visible in the port is corrosion (albeit light) on the valve seats:

DSCF2795.jpg (36.26 KiB) Viewed 16389 times

Guy, with regard to tools, lets just say I have little excuses there; all the aforementioned are in may garage (and the rest!).
With regard to clenlieness, I am right with you on those lines, I HATE working in a disaster area.

As for seperating, bagging and tagging small parts, this is my top tool tip for today:
The humble takaway container (unused please!), write the discription on the top and store in a large plastic box:

DSCF2786.jpg (64.34 KiB) Viewed 16389 times

Well thats it until the next instructions.
Regards,
Alan.

[Guy Croft]

I think you have forged pistons in there, Mondial I think.

More later,

G

[kremlingazette]

I think you have forged pistons in there, Mondial I think.

More later,

G

Hi Guy,

The pistons in mine are marked inside "Mondial", does this mean they are forged or did they produce cast pistons.

thanks


Ivan

[Guy Croft]

They did both. They made all the Fiat-Abarth 'works' forged pistons and they did all the production cast ones too until at least 1998. I am not sure what happened beyond that, I think they were absorbed into Mahle (?) and I have no idea who made (makes) Fiat pistons beyond that time.

I think what we can see here is a Mondial slipper piston - which all there forgings were. They were one of the few (if not the only firm) who forged in this ultra-lightweight style.

G

[kremlingazette]

Hello Guy,

Clearly you have a eye for detail, being able to identify the piston type from that scant view into the cylinder.

I suspect mine are now cast Mondial type, image attached.

Ivan

[Guy Croft]

They are indeed production cast types.

G

[robert kenney]

I think what we can see here is a Mondial slipper piston - which all there forgings were. They were one of the few (if not the only firm) who forged in this ultra-lightweight style.
G

Guy
Do you by any chance remember what the piston only gram weight was on the Mondial forged slugs was? I suppose it is for intrest sake more than anything else. I want to see how they compare to the ones I had made.

Oh.... I hope this question is not out of place in this thread.

Thanks,
Robert