Correct oil filter!

Road-race engines and ancillaries - general discussion
twincamspit
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by twincamspit »

Hello RossoCorsa, from a quick look through that extensive report that Chris has the link to, it looks like WIX is a decent brand.
Thanks for the extra info on the Beta VX filter dimensions.

In actual fact, the 74mm high one does fit my 'tight' installation, but I have to remove the filter housing (4 bolts), turn the filter sideways and squeeze between the suspension turret and the steering rack, turn the filter the right way up again, then refit the housing with a new gasket, and finally screw the filter on!
On a new filter that isn't too bad, but when it's full of black oil it'll be a bit messy.

That's why I've been trying to find one that's just a little bit shorter, ideally about 65mm high x 96mm diameter, with the 3/4" UNF-16TPI thread, and an oil seal size that fits the standard housing.

Having reconsidered the merits of a larger filter area vs easier servicing once-per-year, I think I'll keep the little (74W x 58H) WIX WL7064 for 'roadside emergencies' and go through the hassle of fitting the Beta sized (96W x 74H) Motorcraft EFL298/WIX WL7168 - as it is only once per year, and anything I can do to prolong my 34-year old engine can only be a good thing. Nice clean-build engines by a pro like Guy are a different matter from my self-maintained old engine.

However, I intend to keep looking, so if I ever do find a 96W x 60-65H one then I'll post it here, because that would be the best of both!

Don't suppose anyone knows the torque settings to refit my filter housing?! Can't see them in either the Haynes storybook or my (early) GC bible.
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Brit01
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by Brit01 »

Have you considered Mann also?
The recommended filter for the 130 Fiat is the W 1140 but it has a height of 135 and width of 108. Very big. But not 100% sure about the TC.

I looked at their site and found this smaller alternative (only difference is the height and width, all other specs are the same):

Do the rubber washer fitting dimensions match the WIX and others? 62/71

W 914/2

outer diameter: 93
inner diameter at top: 62
inner diameter at bottom: 71
3/4-16 UNF
Height: 69
bypass pressure: 1.2
non-return valves:1
twincamspit
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by twincamspit »

> Do the rubber washer fitting dimensions match the WIX and others?

The little WIX filter has its seal right on the outer edge, pretty much the same size as the larger Z501 and EFL298. Both seal on the Fiat TC housing perfectly. I keep meaning to measure the min/max for future reference, but haven't as yet.

When you said the "The recommended filter for the 130 Fiat is the W 1140", did you mean for the 130TC (i.e. Strada) or for the Fiat 130? As far as I know, the Fiat 130 had a different Lampredi DOHC from the legendary Fiat 124/125/131/132/Argenta/Strada 130TC or Lancia variants; the Fiat 130 had a V6 engine of around 3 litres, and wasn't that closely related to the '124' family.
Of course, that's just what I remember from years back, and I could easily be wrong!

I'm not that familiar with Mann filters, but I've ordered a W914/2 to evaluate, thanks, although as you mentioned the 62-71mm ring may be too narrow. As I've already found, the manufacturer's dimensions aren't that accurate on the adverts or websites - so the simplest answer was to order one and see. I'll post the results when it arrives.
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Brit01
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by Brit01 »

Tha Mann web site has a dimension field you can input and it brings up the range of filters or a vehicle drop down also.

Check it out. There were various Fiat models. Maybe I chose the wrong one.
twincamspit
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by twincamspit »

> Tha Mann web site has a dimension field you can input and it brings up the range of filters or a vehicle drop down also.
> Check it out. There were various Fiat models

I just have, and the 130 it lists is indeed the V6 130, not the 130TC Strada.
Yet under 'Strada' it doesn't list the 130TC oddly, only the lesser engines.

For my engine (a 1977 year 1756cc 132) it would be the W 717/2, which is the same size as the OEM Fiat one, at 100mm long, 76mm diameter; it has the sealing ring of 62-71mm as you'd found on the shorter W 914/2 which I've ordered.

Sounds promising, so thanks for that info.
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twincamspit
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by twincamspit »

Correction, I've just found the 130TC, it's under 'Ritmo' not 'Strada' - and also specifies the large W 717/2, same as the 132 and Argenta.
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twincamspit
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by twincamspit »

Thanks Chris, that 'dimensions' option on the Mann site was very interesting!

I limited the search to 3/16" UNF-16, and looking for height <= 60mm so that I can fit it without having to remove the housing, with a non-return valve, and that really limits it to a choice of 2.

The recommended size Mann filter is a "W 717/2", which is 76W x 100H, sealing ring 62 to 71mm, 2 non-return valves, and a bypass valve that operates at 1.5 bar.
Mann also do a "W 77" which is 76W x 59H, sealing ring 62 to 71mm, 1 non-return valve, bypass valve of 0.8 bar, and a "W 77/2" which is identical to the "W 77" except that the bypass valve operates at 2.2 bar.

Do I go for the 2.2 bar version or the 0.8?
Is it better for the bypass valve to operate later or early in the unfortunate situation of a blocked filter?
From what Guy said, it sounds like if it operates then all the crud in the filter would start to go around the engine, so I'm thinking the 2.2 bar version....
or am I missing the importance of the bypass valve altogether?!
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Guy Croft
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by Guy Croft »

Publication of info on bypass valves is quite recent, and helpful too.

If the bypass rating is lower than the cold start oil pressure unfiltered oil will go round the engine. So maybe go for the higher rated one.

As for crud blocking the filter change the oil 'religiously' every 5-6000 miles. You need to make sure short runs esp in cold weather don't allow a build up of 'jelly' and sludge in the oil - where the oil never gets hot enough to boil-off entrained moisture etc..

Always use the best oil you can afford - oils contain detergents and dispersants which clean the engine and hold contaminants in suspension. I'm a bit out of date with ratings to be honest. But if you buy cheap engine oil you don't get ultimate protection. I used to recommend API SH and CCMC G4 or higher.

G
twincamspit
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by twincamspit »

Thanks Guy, I'll go for the 2.2 bar one then.

> I used to recommend API SH and CCMC G4 or higher.

The well-known-brand of 15W/40 oil I've been using to date says:
"Meets or exceeds the requirements of the following specifications: API SG/CD, CCMC G4/PD2"

So although only 'API SG' rather than 'API SH', but as it meets the 'CCMC G4' and it's the one listed in the Fiat 132 handbook that came with the donor car then I'm happy to stick with that.
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turbofiat
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by turbofiat »

parrish wrote:I have just bought a filter for a 130TC.
My local automotive spares shop has identified the filter from his catalogue and has supplied a 'pbr BC-1343' (made in Spain)
I am concerned as it is some-what smaller than the currently fitted ' FRAM PH 2857A'
The return holes are smaller and their are less of them, the volume of the filter appears less, that aside it is a good fit?
Am i being too cautious?
Shoud i use the new filter?
Steve
Have you ever seen a Mazda or Nissan oil filter? They are tiny!
124 Spider, Yugo,131
twincamspit
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by twincamspit »

> Have you ever seen a Mazda or Nissan oil filter? They are tiny!

I must admit that since I've been looking into filtration, I've been surprised how small some of the OEM American filters are for 2.5+ litre engines!
Which models of Mazda/Nissan do you mean?
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Brit01
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by Brit01 »

Glad you found the correct info. Wish all sites would put a tool like that for searching.

I went for a 2.2 or 2.4 bar bypass on my Alfa (2 non-return valves also) W19/14. I use 20W so it's pretty thick on start up until it warms up. As mentioned by Guy you don't want any debris being bypassed on start up. Better rely on the pump bypass valve that returns it back to the sump.

In winter maybe I go back down to 10W/60.

Just put in 20W/60 300V Le Mans.

100kms so far so good. Had to reduce the idling by 300 rpm so obviously it was running with much less friction and engine at high speed was also running a few degrees cooler.
turbofiat
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by turbofiat »

twincamspit wrote:> Have you ever seen a Mazda or Nissan oil filter? They are tiny!

I must admit that since I've been looking into filtration, I've been surprised how small some of the OEM American filters are for 2.5+ litre engines!
Which models of Mazda/Nissan do you mean?
The one for the Mazda is a 1.6 liter (B6-2E engine). The car I'm referring to is a Mercury Capri which was built by Ford of Australia. Basically a reskined Mazda 323. The Nissan I'm refering to was a 2003 350Z 3.5 liter. Those are just two examples of cars I've owned with tiny oil filters. There maybe others.

Years ago Autozone here in the US used to sella brand of air,fuel and oil filters called Duetch made by Champion (or owned by Champion).

The largest filter on their shelf was for a Fiat/Alfa Romeo/Yugo. It stuck out like a sore thumb it was so big. I bet this filter could hold .75 to 1 liter of oil.

When I would take it to the counter, whoever was working there that day would ask me what engine does this fit? When I told them it fit a 1.1 liter Yugo or a 2 liter Fiat, they would ask, why would such a small engine require such a large oil filter? I wondered that myself.

I believe my twin cam I have on my engine stand I use for turbo mockups still has the filter on it. I'll take a photo of it if you want to see how large it is.

I cannot find an actual replacement Fiat oil filter at these discount autoparts stores anymore. They have been replaced by Chyrsler/Jeep filters. I had a 1994 Jeep Wrangler and it used the same oil filter.

By the way. I know this may sound odd but sometimes I buy a brand of oil filter simply because it makes installing and removing the filter easier. I had a 1996 Ford Explorer with the 5 liter engine and the oil filter was mounted to where it was difficult to access. Some brands were about an inch shorter than say another brand. I believe it was STP which was the shorter. So I usually bought that brand. If I used the longer oil filter (like FRAM), it was very difficult to remove because it was near impossible to slide a filter wrench around the filter because of the radiator.

Another good example is a GM 3.5 liter engine. My wife has a Buick and I changed the oil and filter the other day and had clearance issues with the filter wrench. The previous oil change took me 10 minutes because I had used a shorter oil filter.

Usually people choose an oil filter based on filtration, pressure release valves, etc. So I maybe an unusual case where I choose a particular brand simply because of how easy it is to remove and install. Does that sound weird?

I hate struggling trying to remove an oil filter when it comes to clearance issues!
124 Spider, Yugo,131
twincamspit
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by twincamspit »

Thanks for the clarification Turbofiat!

The UK Mazda 323 1.6L is listed as using an 'FL803' which is a square little filter of just over 3" (so about 75mm) - but more importantly it says it uses a metric 20 x 1.5mm thread, rather than the 3/4" UNF at 16 TPI. Even if I got it to fit, I'd be scared of stripping the thread, or worse the oil filter shooting off under pressure!!

A difference between the UK and US model perhaps?


> I believe my twin cam I have on my engine stand I use for turbo mockups still has the filter on it. I'll take a photo of it if you want to see how large it is.

That would be great please, and if possible the filter manufacturer and model? Also, if it's not too much trouble, could you also measure the outside length?
I've found that even the sites that list very accurate sizes (e.g. 59.8mm H) are fibbing.
They must have either changed spec since starting manufacture, or perhaps both my caliper/vernier gauges are inaccurate (to the same amount?!) - as, even if you exclude the seal, the size can be a good +5mm over the manufacturer's advertised size.

I'm still looking into the Nissan 350Z filter, got distracted by the tech spec of the engine!
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twincamspit
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Re: Correct oil filter!

Post by twincamspit »

> I choose a particular brand simply because of how easy it is to remove and install. Does that sound weird?

Not that weird... I agree for an everyday car, such as my Ford Mundano. But not for something as special as a Fiat twincam! That's worth spending a whole day on a service, if required, once per year IMHO
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