What is the difference between these two engines

Road-race engines and ancillaries - general discussion
Håvard
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What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Håvard » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:47 pm

Hi

I have purchased two Fiat twin cam 2.0 engines. One of them is in working order, and the other one is for parts etc. The plan is to mount one in a 1984 Lada 2102. But i have a question about these two engines they have different labeling on the engineblocks, one of them is marked Fiat-Lancia GT, while the other is marked 132 AC. 40/9 Fiat. what is the main difference between the two engines, and how much horsepower does these engines have?

I have pictures of both the engines.

Regards Håvard
Attachments
fiat tc 1.jpg
the working Fiat engine picture 1
fiat tc 1.jpg (53.34 KiB) Viewed 2786 times
fiat tc 2.jpg
the working Fiat engine picture 2
fiat tc 2.jpg (57.8 KiB) Viewed 2786 times
gt blokk 1.jpg
picture of the block on the working engine
gt blokk 1.jpg (119.72 KiB) Viewed 2786 times
fiat tc 3.jpg
the spare engine
fiat tc 3.jpg (52.31 KiB) Viewed 2786 times
delemotor 1.jpg
picture of the block on the spare engine
delemotor 1.jpg (92.55 KiB) Viewed 2786 times
Last edited by Håvard on Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nobby
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Nobby » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:12 pm

Unless I am mistaken it will be hard to identify the engine spec by just the block - i.e. Fiat used blocks which look very similar on the outside to for 1.6/1.8/2.0 etc.. It might be easier to identify them using the head numbers.

Chris
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Håvard
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Håvard » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:50 pm

Thanks for the reply!

I have some pictures of the heads.
Attachments
IMAG0614.jpg
the fiat-lancia one
IMAG0614.jpg (1.73 MiB) Viewed 2749 times
IMAG0615.jpg
the part engine
IMAG0615.jpg (1.5 MiB) Viewed 2749 times

Guy Croft
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Guy Croft » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:54 pm

Just check the stroke with a thin rod down the plug hole at BDC and TDC.

2 liter is 90mm. I think they are both 1600 units. Certainly the 132 2 liter casting code on the block is 132 DB not AC. I think AC is 1800.

You can't definitively tell from the heads, they get swapped anyway...

G
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Spider 1969
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Spider 1969 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:40 pm

Håvard,

As far as I know the spider engines have a identification number stamped next to or above the oil filter base. I don't know if this is also the case for the other Lampredi engines but if they are there please publish them here so we can check what type of engines they are.

Regards,

Charles
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Håvard
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Håvard » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:09 pm

Thanks for the great feedback.

It seems like these engines needs further inspection, i tougth i bougth two 2.0 engines. It seems like i have been fooled,
anyways, these engine dont grow on trees in norway, so one of them is being restored.

I will check around the oilfilter base for the identification number.

Regards Håvard

Guy Croft
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Guy Croft » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:40 pm

Check the stroke.

I don't need more numbers.

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Sandro
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Sandro » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:59 am

All

the first one looks like a strada 2 litre 130tc, pulleys, sump, oil cooler, distributor and carbs all off the 130tc ( i know they could be swapped over in the past).....mind you the coolant pipes in the head are not 130tc it is off a 124 / 131 or 132.... the second one i dont know

stroke measurment will certainly identify

regards

sandro
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RichardRidge
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by RichardRidge » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:37 am

The head casting 5992303 was used on the 105/130 TC. Don't know much about it as it was not exported to the U.S. The casting 4371507 was used on many TC's. Here in the U.S. the 132.C8.1AO suffix was used on RWD fuel injected 2 liter engines starting in 1980. It's advantage as a head is good breathing through unshrouded valves. That is offset by a 53-54cc camber volume that yields a compression ratio of only 8.1:1 when used with stock flat-top pistons.

If you are not budgeting for a complete teardown and rebuild, I would focus on the general condition of the two engines. If they can be spun up on a starter, you can get compression readings before taking the heads off. The condition and wear pattern on the cam lobes and the presence or absence of sludge and heavy deposits in the cam boxes and in the exhaust ports are also indicative. Once the heads are off you will have a lot more to go on.

The 2L engine has a deeper block but if the engine can be turned over, you can measure the stroke quite directly through the spark plug hole.

Richard

Håvard
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Håvard » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:46 pm

Hi

Thanks for all the good feedback guys,
I will begin to dismantle the engine possibly this weekend or over the next week, then I will know for sure how big the engine is.
Is there any big differents between the Fiat 124 Familiare and the Lada 2102 Combi, like brakes, suspension and what engine these cars were delivered with, because these car are almost the same.
Considering the approval from the highway agency for a engine swap in my lada.

Thanks again for your reply

tommilton
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by tommilton » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:51 am

Before you do all that measuring etc, just go online to find the engine numbers listed - if you Google Fiat engine numbers you will get to it very quickly - I have the link but understand we are not supposed to provide links in this blog. (HAPPY TO DO SO WITH PERMISSION - how do I obtain that?) The casting numbers themselves don't mean much - the engine number will be stamped on the block near the engine mount on the oil filter side of the engine. Match it up against the list and you will know the engine type and market and possibly close estimate of the year of the engine too. You can tell the 2 litre engines by the sump as well - larger than for the earlier engines. From your photo, yours looks like a 2 litre to me from the ancillary equipment. Measuring is good too of course as a confirmation but it's nice to know what you are starting with in my view. I bought a couple of 2 litre engines recently and brought my list with me to make sure I did not end up with stuff I did not want. I have a photo to show the location of the engine number but don't know yet how to post the photo - (I'm a newbie to this blogging thing - help please with permissions and photo uploading!)

Håvard
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Håvard » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:28 am

tommilton wrote:Before you do all that measuring etc, just go online to find the engine numbers listed - if you Google Fiat engine numbers you will get to it very quickly - I have the link but understand we are not supposed to provide links in this blog. (HAPPY TO DO SO WITH PERMISSION - how do I obtain that?) The casting numbers themselves don't mean much - the engine number will be stamped on the block near the engine mount on the oil filter side of the engine. Match it up against the list and you will know the engine type and market and possibly close estimate of the year of the engine too. You can tell the 2 litre engines by the sump as well - larger than for the earlier engines. From your photo, yours looks like a 2 litre to me from the ancillary equipment. Measuring is good too of course as a confirmation but it's nice to know what you are starting with in my view. I bought a couple of 2 litre engines recently and brought my list with me to make sure I did not end up with stuff I did not want. I have a photo to show the location of the engine number but don't know yet how to post the photo - (I'm a newbie to this blogging thing - help please with permissions and photo uploading!)
Could you send me a PM with the URL/Link?

fingers99
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by fingers99 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:27 am

tommilton wrote:B. (HAPPY TO DO SO WITH PERMISSION - how do I obtain that?)
Just eMail Guy.
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tommilton
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by tommilton » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:28 pm

Fiat engine number location on 2L engines:
jpg[/attachment]
Attachments
Fiat engine number location on 2L engines.jpg
engine number location - Fiat 2 L
Fiat engine number location on 2L engines.jpg (94.47 KiB) Viewed 2187 times

Abarthnorway - Remi L
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Re: What is the difference between these two engines

Post by Abarthnorway - Remi L » Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:06 pm

Hi Håvard!

Why don't You just take the heads off?
Then You will very quickly find everything You look for. Valve size, pistons/compression, and can check the cc easily. At the same time You can get a quick overview of the condition of the engines. Its a Question of 10 headbolts - 10 min max.....
;-)

Mvh - best regards

Remi(92622577)
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