Camshafts seized or timing way out?
Posted: July 14th, 2013, 10:54 pm
Hi all,
My camshafts have absolutely no movement/play in them even without the timing belt on .
I'm not sure if they're seized, or whether the timing is possibly 180 degrees out or something? Hopefully someone can advise from these photos and my description.
I know about the crankshaft pulley timing mark and where it should align with the mark on the timing cover. (it does, even though it is a replacement crankshaft pulley - I locked the flywheel though the access cover before changing the pulley, and the dowel definitely didn't move).
I also know about the 2 locations for cam pulley timing marks, on the end of the water elbow AND on the camshaft housing itself.
Both pulleys line up as expected, and as far as I know, the camshafts haven't been rotated - although the previous cambelt change was done by the previous owner some time ago and I can't remember if the engine has actually run since then. And just to complicate things, I've changed the cam pulleys over too, but they also have equivalent alignment holes which also line up.
My first problem was, while following Guy's book, trying to turn the engine over by hand using the crankshaft pulley after changing the cambelt, the crankshaft starts to turn, but then hits a strong resistance almost immediately - and Guy's book says to STOP if there is any resistance.
The resistance seems to be caused by the cams. Both the inlet and the exhaust camshafts will not move even half a mm, forwards or backwards, even with the cambelt removed. Now is time to admit that I let the oil drain totally from the engine for several weeks due to an oil change that I didn't get around to finishing due to an emergency elsewhere.
I've eliminated the possibility of the new cam pulleys 'catching' on the cam housing by putting one of the old solid pulleys back onto the inlet side, and just doing it finger tight. The problem remained, can't rotate it even half a mm either way, feels absolutely solid.
So my immediate question is: are both camshafts likely to be seized, or is the timing a long way out somehow, even though the markings 'look' right?
I know that pistons in cyls 1 and 4 are very close to the top compared to 2 and 3 - using the 'wooden spoon handle thru the spark-plug hole' technique; also all markings are where they *should* be, but is it possible that I'm trying to set things up 180 degrees out or something?
I remember reading somewhere that on the combustion stroke for cyl 1, cyl 1's inlet and exhaust camshaft lobes should be pointing 'upwards', but when I removed the cam covers I found that cyl 4 lobes are the closest to 'upwards' out of all of them (see photo).
I've filled the cam carriers with 15/40W oil in the vain hope that it might somehow free the camshafts if they've just dried out and seized up, but I'm still concerned that even with the camshafts able to turn slightly that the timing might be 180 degrees out anyway!
Any thoughts anyone?
My camshafts have absolutely no movement/play in them even without the timing belt on .
I'm not sure if they're seized, or whether the timing is possibly 180 degrees out or something? Hopefully someone can advise from these photos and my description.
I know about the crankshaft pulley timing mark and where it should align with the mark on the timing cover. (it does, even though it is a replacement crankshaft pulley - I locked the flywheel though the access cover before changing the pulley, and the dowel definitely didn't move).
I also know about the 2 locations for cam pulley timing marks, on the end of the water elbow AND on the camshaft housing itself.
Both pulleys line up as expected, and as far as I know, the camshafts haven't been rotated - although the previous cambelt change was done by the previous owner some time ago and I can't remember if the engine has actually run since then. And just to complicate things, I've changed the cam pulleys over too, but they also have equivalent alignment holes which also line up.
My first problem was, while following Guy's book, trying to turn the engine over by hand using the crankshaft pulley after changing the cambelt, the crankshaft starts to turn, but then hits a strong resistance almost immediately - and Guy's book says to STOP if there is any resistance.
The resistance seems to be caused by the cams. Both the inlet and the exhaust camshafts will not move even half a mm, forwards or backwards, even with the cambelt removed. Now is time to admit that I let the oil drain totally from the engine for several weeks due to an oil change that I didn't get around to finishing due to an emergency elsewhere.
I've eliminated the possibility of the new cam pulleys 'catching' on the cam housing by putting one of the old solid pulleys back onto the inlet side, and just doing it finger tight. The problem remained, can't rotate it even half a mm either way, feels absolutely solid.
So my immediate question is: are both camshafts likely to be seized, or is the timing a long way out somehow, even though the markings 'look' right?
I know that pistons in cyls 1 and 4 are very close to the top compared to 2 and 3 - using the 'wooden spoon handle thru the spark-plug hole' technique; also all markings are where they *should* be, but is it possible that I'm trying to set things up 180 degrees out or something?
I remember reading somewhere that on the combustion stroke for cyl 1, cyl 1's inlet and exhaust camshaft lobes should be pointing 'upwards', but when I removed the cam covers I found that cyl 4 lobes are the closest to 'upwards' out of all of them (see photo).
I've filled the cam carriers with 15/40W oil in the vain hope that it might somehow free the camshafts if they've just dried out and seized up, but I'm still concerned that even with the camshafts able to turn slightly that the timing might be 180 degrees out anyway!
Any thoughts anyone?