1592cc Head Identification

Road-race engines and ancillaries - general discussion
mccamie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:12 am

1592cc Head Identification

Post by mccamie » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:53 pm

This is my first forum posting!!!

I purchased online an unused bare head with bronze value guides. It is a 1592cc twin cam head with an ID of: F.F. 1X / 132AB.1A.0 S62 / 4238527 C. My research tells me it was originally for a 1973 Fiat 124 Sport Coupe 1600. The website I found said that the head has a compression ratio of 9.8:1. Or it may be for a 1970 Fiat 124 Special T 1592cc with a compression ratio of 8.9:1. If not where does it come from and what is the compression ratio?

I plan on the following modifications: Intake and exhaust port modification, combustion chamber modification, heavy duty value springs, oversize-diameter intake & exhaust valves - 43mm intake, 37.5mm exhaust.

My question is will the head accept the oversized values? Will the compression ratio increase to 10.3:1 on an 1800cc block w/flat pistons? Will using a 93octane w/10% ethanol work on a 10.3:1 engine?

I will be using dual 40IDF Weber carbs, header w/ 2 ¼” free flow exhaust and 3.9 rear. I have not decided on cams yet. It is for my 1976 Fiat 124 and will be doing a lot of highway driving at65mph/105klmh

mccamie

Guy Croft
Site Admin
Posts: 5025
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK
Contact:

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by Guy Croft » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:00 pm

Please post a photo of the combustion chamber!

GC
Guy Croft, owner

mccamie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:12 am

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by mccamie » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:49 pm

GC

Per your request I have posted photos of the 1592cc head chamber and plate info.

mccamie
Attachments
20130108_110007.jpg
Head ID Plate
20130108_110007.jpg (2.96 MiB) Viewed 2624 times
20130108_110235.jpg
Head Combustion Chamber w-Inch Scale
20130108_110235.jpg (2.74 MiB) Viewed 2624 times

Guy Croft
Site Admin
Posts: 5025
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK
Contact:

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by Guy Croft » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:00 pm

I can't ID the head from the number - I don't have it in the list.

But the cc volume will be about the same as the one attached.

See my next post..

G
Attachments
G Waller cc.JPG
G Waller cc.JPG (511.38 KiB) Viewed 2620 times
Guy Croft, owner

Guy Croft
Site Admin
Posts: 5025
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK
Contact:

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by Guy Croft » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:16 pm

For starters the compression ratios were all achieved by use of various styles of domed piston.

Not your fault but you are going entirely the wrong way with your project so I guess I could say you have come to the right place for advice before you start!

I have input some figures into an Excel download table to show you how CR is calculated, you won't get anywhere near the CR you want with flat top pistons, indeed if you execute a big valve conversion on your head it will a) need extensive deshrouding to get any benefit and b) go way bigger than the one I have illustrated. The head in the photo above for Graham Waller likely started at about 49cc (when NEW and I emphasise new...)

You need domed pistons and I can tell you with well-prepped head the cc volume will go easily over 53cc and with the small swept volume of the 1800 you need an intruder of very large volume to get a decent CR. On an ex works 1800 for member Mick Wood -even tho the unit was a big-bore (86mm) and even tho the final chamber volume of the 45/40 big valve head was a miraculously low 55cc my forged piston design had to have a dome of nearly 18cc volume even just to get 10.1/CR....

the truth is this - you can make the chamber quite a bit bigger and not add a huge amount to the volume, but the only way to get high CR is an appropriately sized dome on the piston..

GC
Attachments
CR flat piston 1800 8V.xls
(20.5 KiB) Downloaded 77 times
MW.JPG
Here is Mick's...
MW.JPG (85.63 KiB) Viewed 2616 times
Guy Croft, owner

mccamie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:12 am

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by mccamie » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:24 pm

G
Thanks for the information. I plan on sending head out to a good Fiat engine builder to get the work done.
mccamie

TomLouwrier
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:09 pm
Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by TomLouwrier » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:34 pm

I plan on sending head out to a good Fiat engine builder to get the work done.
You're currently talking to one...

regards
Tom
GC_29

Guy Croft
Site Admin
Posts: 5025
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK
Contact:

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by Guy Croft » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:53 pm

Nice try Tom!!!


G

(perils of running a free forum, well, 'free' as in 'paid for by GC....!..'
Guy Croft, owner

nabihelosta
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:37 pm
Location: Lebanon

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by nabihelosta » Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:38 pm

"A good Fiat engine builder"
LOL
That's the funniest thing I've ever heard.
What is Guy Croft supposed to be?! A belly-dancer??

N
HORSEPOWERunlimited

Guy Croft
Site Admin
Posts: 5025
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK
Contact:

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by Guy Croft » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:56 am

I am sure no slight was intended by Camie!


G
Guy Croft, owner

mccamie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:12 am

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by mccamie » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:05 pm

Forgive me if I offended anyone regarding my comment. I live in Bethany Beach, Delaware, USA not the UK. So sending it overseas to get work done would be a bit expensive. Thank you G for your response.
Camie

Guy Croft
Site Admin
Posts: 5025
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK
Contact:

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by Guy Croft » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:45 pm

No worries Camie!

You are an accredited member here same as everyone!

G
Guy Croft, owner

TomLouwrier
Posts: 331
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:09 pm
Location: Leiden, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by TomLouwrier » Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:39 pm

Hi Camie,

No offence meant, and certainly none taken. It just looked a bit funny to me so I suggested our host here might actually be the Guy you're looking for. (Yes, pun intended.)
Are those shipping rates really that steep compared to your rebuild? I regularly buy stuff from all over Europe (on Oboy) and that comes through UPS and the likes at reasonable cost.
Anyway, it is of course your engine and your wallet.

regards
Tom
GC_29

mccamie
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:12 am

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by mccamie » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:02 am

Tom

I checked online USPS rates to Lincoln UK and got a cost of $101.00/£62.75. I thought it best that I get it done here in the US. I will let you know how it turns out.

Proverb: Money is not everything but it is way ahead of number two. What is number two? Anything you want if you have the money!

Thanks
Camie

Beek
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:37 pm
Location: Clermont, Florida

Re: 1592cc Head Identification

Post by Beek » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:38 am

Just my .02 worth. I own a machine shop and specialize in cylinder heads, if I were you I would spend the money to ship your head to guy any day. The wealth of experience that you are getting for the cost of shipping cannot be compared. You will spend 50.00 driving all around the country side trying to get your head done. Half of the people you talk to will just laugh at you as they only work on domestic engines for performance upgrades. None of them has the quantitive experience that guy has in this particular model. All of the power is made in the head; the bottom end is merely an air compressor. Do not skimp on you head or you will have future regret.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests