First Step - Advice on car selection

[GTAm]

Hello all,

I am a new member here from the unlikely location of Sri Lanka. I'm a big Italian car fan and at the forefront of the Italian car scene in Sri Lanka. Owing to successive poor importers/distributors Italian cars have had a poor reputation in our country, which we are slowly changing. My first Italian car experience was an uncle's 131 and then some years later I bought a Fiat Regata 100S.
I currently own 6 Alfa Romeos of which 2 are being restored for sale, one is a daily driver 159 and the other 3 (Giulia GTJ, Alfetta GTV and Sud Sprint) are basically very standard in tune.

However in a bid to improve the image of Italian cars I believe we need to get a car or two into at least minor competition. Now motorsports are still what experts would call at a primitive stage in the country despite a long history that began when we were a British colony. Budgets are small and races are very short to keep costs down. Current participation of Italian cars is zero although Fiat has a good racing heritage here that began with the 500C, 600, 1100 and ended 124s.

I am vary about turning any of my Alfas into a fast sprinter or hill climb machine because of their rarity and hence value (cars over 2 years old cannot be imported) and new cars are hit with import taxes between 200 and 300% of their value!

And so I have been thinking of buying a cheapish Fiat or Alfa and turning it into a fast machine that could compete in Hill climbs and drag races for starters. I must also say that my technical knowledge is not great and I'm hopeless with spanners. Anything mechanical will be carried out by our workshop.

Cars that I can currently afford that are available or come up for sale from time to time are these. I've purposely narrowed down to the the lightest ones.

1. Fiat 128 - There are two for sale in excellent shape. Rough examples can be found as they were assembled here in the late 70's and early 80's. Almost all are 1100 SOHC but a 1300 transplant is allowed since they originally did come with that capacity. Will compete with Mini 1275s, Mazda 1300s and Nissan Micras

2. Fiat Uno Turbo Mk1 - There only 2 cars that ever came into SL and they are both in very poor states - body, cosmetics and mechanicals. They are not officially up for sale but I am quite sure I can track them down and induce the owners to part with them as they must be struggling to keep them on the road. These will compete with Toyota Starlet Turbos which have numerous JDM mods. One Uno turbo competed in Hill Climbs against Starlets and Renault 5 GT turbos and was moderately successful.

3. Alfa 33 1.5 ie. This would be the priciest car of the lot and yet be in poor condition. Competition will be from Honda Civics, Mazda 323s.

4. 5 door Fiat Uno 45s 903cc OHV and 999cc SOHC s. 45s will compete with Mini 1000 and Indian Suzukis.

My budget will not be large too. I do not want a complex project for my first time that will frustrate me. I would like something quite straight forward. What I'm looking for are some options and guidance, with rough estimates so that I can zero in on one of the above.

Please feel free to ask me any questions. Thank you in advance.

[Guy Croft]

MODEL POST!


Well done indeed new member Steven!

Let's have some rapid incisive and concise advice please readers!!

I am otherwise engaged at present, sorry, will join later.


G

[badlyworntoy]

Steve
How available are Lada's in your country?

Nix

[nabihelosta]

Steven

I would go with the 128 with an 1300 sohc transplant. I know that this particular motor can do something if expertly modified. The 128 chassis, proportions and competition parts availability, and the way you can easily customize different parts to fit for duty, is awesome.
Though, keep in mind that you will have a fierce competition from the Minis. They are well-bred race machines.
One more thing, if the Mazda 1300s have the Rotary engine, don't even think to compete in this class.

Good luck!
Nabih

[Uros Piperski]

I can agree with Nabih with this one, but only because I know the 128 type cars.
Would you be allowed to stroke to 1.3 SOHC? You can easily raise the displacement to 1.5 liters by using a crankshaft from a 1.5 or Uno turbo 1.3 engine, or to 1.6 liters by using a crank of a 1.4 or 1.6 SOHC. Of course, you will need custom made pistons and/or rods, but this is a must with a racing engine.

[GTAm]

Steve
How available are Lada's in your country?

Nix

Hi Nix,
I take it you mean the rwd 124 derivative,
There are quite a few in the country. Many have been transplanted with a rattly Toyota diesel engines (Diesel fuel is subsidized in Sri Lanka and so sells at a big discount). However I'm quite sure a decent one could be found.

[GTAm]

Steven

I would go with the 128 with an 1300 sohc transplant. I know that this particular motor can do something if expertly modified. The 128 chassis, proportions and competition parts availability, and the way you can easily customize different parts to fit for duty, is awesome.
Though, keep in mind that you will have a fierce competition from the Minis. They are well-bred race machines.
One more thing, if the Mazda 1300s have the Rotary engine, don't even think to compete in this class.

Good luck!
Nabih

Thanks Nabih. My thoughts are beginning to head into that direction too. Buying a car already in good shape is also attractive. Glad to hear about competition parts availability.

Yes Mini's are very competitive and mostly driven by very experienced veterans. The Mazda's are inline piston engines and not the Rotary. If it's rotary a capacity multiplier is used to negate the advantage.

[GTAm]

I can agree with Nabih with this one, but only because I know the 128 type cars.
Would you be allowed to stroke to 1.3 SOHC? You can easily raise the displacement to 1.5 liters by using a crankshaft from a 1.5 or Uno turbo 1.3 engine, or to 1.6 liters by using a crank of a 1.4 or 1.6 SOHC. Of course, you will need custom made pistons and/or rods, but this is a must with a racing engine.

Actually I need to avoid this to stay in the under 1300 class. The moment you go above the class changes. And since the 128 did not originally come with 1.5 or 1.6L it becomes eligible only for the "Modified and Special" class where events are few and so are competitors.

[Guy Croft]

I would go with the Uno - so long as it is the early SOHC engine not that awful 'Fire' unit...

G

[GTAm]

I would go with the Uno - so long as it is the early SOHC engine not that awful 'Fire' unit...

G

Thanks Guy. You mean the 999cc or the 1301cc? Not the Turbo?

[Guy Croft]

the one that looks like the engine in my photo...

Not the turbo, definitely stay normally aspirated.

G

[Honza]

If you want ot stay in "under" 1300cm class, you should take into account that all Fiat engines are slightly over-1301ccm (instead of certain Fiat uno turbo with 1285ccm engine if I have right data?)...
So I don´t know if there are some % tolerances in classes which allows e.g. slight rebore of engine resulting in slihty higher displacement...

Due to that fact I would go with UNOturbo..

few tweaks- like bigger FMIC, cam from punto GT or Uno 1,5 MPI or even some with race profile, turbo swap and free flowing exhaust, certain parts from punto GT-injectors and intake manifold.. and 160-200BHP isn´t impossible which is more than enought for such a car...even on standart internals...(instead of clutch)

-there are many expamples of uno turbo engines here in czech (and not olnly here) with such power and even higher

[GTAm]

If you want ot stay in "under" 1300cm class, you should take into account that all Fiat engines are slightly over-1301ccm (instead of certain Fiat uno turbo with 1285ccm engine if I have right data?)...
So I don´t know if there are some % tolerances in classes which allows e.g. slight rebore of engine resulting in slihty higher displacement...

Due to that fact I would go with UNOturbo..

few tweaks- like bigger FMIC, cam from punto GT or Uno 1,5 MPI or even some with race profile, turbo swap and free flowing exhaust, certain parts from punto GT-injectors and intake manifold.. and 160-200BHP isn´t impossible which is more than enought for such a car...even on standart internals...(instead of clutch)

-there are many expamples of uno turbo engines here in czech (and not olnly here) with such power and even higher

The Uno Turbo came with the 1301cc initially and then with the 1372cc. I've just learned that there are hardly any events in the under 1400cc Turbo class. So maybe the Uno Turbo has eliminated itself.

[GTAm]

More info. After reading this you might be able to advise me even better I believe.

Here are some of the classes that are regularly run.

1.0 SL-N Production Cars
1.01 Group 1:
1. Cars more than 12.0 Kg/BHP
2. Cars more than 10.0 up to and including 12.0 Kg/BHP
3. Cars more than 8.0 up to and including 10.0 Kg/BHP
Or
1.02 Group 2:
4. Cars up to and including 1000 cc ) Manufacturer’s
5. Cars up to and including 1300 cc ) weight
6. Cars up to and including 1500 cc )


1.4 SL-A (Modified Cars)
18. Up to 1050 cc
19. Over 1050 cc and up to 1400 cc

And some explanations -

G/05 Where classification is by cubic capacity:
In the case of supercharging or turbo-charging, the normal
cylinder capacity will be multiplied by 1.7 and the car will pass into
the class corresponding to the fictive volume thus obtained.
In the case of rotary engines, the capacity (cc) will be deemed to be
the equivalent to twice (x2) the volume of the working chamber.

G/06 Where classification is by the Weight/Power Ratio:
Section 2 - NOTES
1. The Ratio will be calculated by dividing the SLAS
Homologated weight expressed in Kilograms by the SLAS
Homologated Horse Power expressed in Metric Units (hp).
2. Note: All categories of cars except FIA-N and SL-F should be
homologated by SLAS.
3. The following conversion factors will be used:
One (01) Kilowatt = 1.37 hp
One (01) P.S = 1.00 hp
One (01) Imperial Horse Power = 0.9863 hp
Gross Horse Power to Nett = 0.90

I'm not sure if I can post the link to the SLAS website. If it is okay I can do so. The complete list of rules are there.

[Guy Croft]

thanks for asking - my permission (under Protocols) IS required for links, as I so often have to remind respected members!

Post the link, I am sorry I am behind on your topic, it is important to me..

G