Auxillary pulley timing alignment

[twincamspit]

Hello all,

My Auxillary pulley has moved while I was changing the cambelt on my 1756cc 132 series engine - and I didn't mark it (yes, I know!!), because I intended to follow the manual that says you align the hole in the pulley to 34 degrees from the vertical.

However the pulley fitted to my car doesn't seem to match any of the diagrams or the photos in my Guy Croft book, the haynes manual, or anything I can find on the internet, which are mostly very similar to a cam pulley. A couple of Argenta photos look similar, but not quite the same, as mine has half-circle holes rather than all circular. So also not quite the same even as the one shown in the "DIY 2.0 TC engine step-by-step rebuild" article by Guy on this forum.

Can someone please let me know *definitively* which timing mark on this type of pulley I should use for the 34 degree alignment?

Is it the line marked in green (next to the '10') or is it the symbol I've circled in blue?

I really don't want to risk turning the engine over until I've got it right as I've not done the driveshaft mod to bypass the distributor, so I realise that the timing is crucial.

Thanks!

Richard (twincamspit)

[Guy Croft]

You cannot use an aux pulley with no flanges!

G

[twincamspit]

You cannot use an aux pulley with no flanges!

G

Hi Guy, thanks for replying.

I take it this isn't the standard aux pulley then? The previous owner must have changed it.

Somebody suggested it was off a Fiat Regata 100, but the few photos I've seen of those just show all circular holes rather than the couple of 'half moon' ones in mine.
Someone else suggested it was from a SOHC X1/9, but I've no idea what those aux pulleys look like.

I was hoping it was just the fact that the engine is a late (1977) 1756cc that it was standard for the year, yet different from the earlier ones in the manuals.

The inlet and exhaust cams have flanges on, (one front, one back) I take it that's not sufficient to stop the belt from working its way off then?

[vandor]

Definitely not a stock '77 pulley. I've seen similar cam pulleys on a '85 Pinin Spider.

For informational purposes only: The green mark is closest to being right, as you can see it is closest to the pulley alignment dowel that is peaking from
under the washer. The original 124 timing marks were 10-15 degrees away from the alignment dowel.

ALWAYS turn the engine 2 revolutions by hand before starting it up after a cambelt change.

[twincamspit]

Thanks Vandor.

I've no option but to turn it by hand anyway, there's a lot more to do before it sees any fuel or even gets the new loom fitted!

It sounds like it would be wise for me to remove this and fit a more standard one, but I recall reading somewhere (could have been in the GC book) that there's a problem when changing some aux pulleys due to it catching?

Can anyone point me to the right information on that please?

Thanks!

[Guy Croft]

I can help but:

1. You need to remove the aux ds and cut off the fuel lobe and plug it as described in my new book, run an elec pump
2. I need a shot of the whole front end showing all the pulleys


G

[twincamspit]

I can help but:

1. You need to remove the aux ds and cut off the fuel lobe and plug it as described in my new book, run an elec pump
2. I need a shot of the whole front end showing all the pulleys


G

Hi Guy,

The version of the book I've got is the 1996 one that I bought new back in 1999! I've read it countless times, and it probably is about time I upgraded.
One thing it did teach me is that there's a lot more to tuning these engines than the pub-talk of just "bunging on a pair of 40s" -- and it also made me realise just how easy it is for an amateur like me to trash even a well designed engine like this!

I've had a new silvertop electric pump sitting in its packaging on the shelf for years, along with a filterking pressure regulator as you describe in your book in the fuel systems section, and I intended to fit it once the megajolt was running rather than changing too much at once.

Apart from those mods (and a pair of DCOE40s) it is a standard engine, as far as I know.

I've got the correct block plug for the now-removed distributor, and I've been told (elsewhere) that I don't *need* to modify the aux driveshaft to switch to megajolt / electric fuel pump, the plug is sufficient to keep everything working and the oil pump too on a standard engine.

Was that advice correct?

The reason I ask is because I *am* an amateur. Servicing the car, changing minor components etc. is within my capabilities, but the idea of removing and cutting driveshafts fills me with trepidation!

The second point is much easier for me to achieve, please see attachment. The only ones missing are the crankshaft pulley which is an alloy one with triggerwheel (rear groove) which I've not fitted yet, and the waterpump one which I assume is irrelevant for now.

Thanks for your time again.

[Guy Croft]

You should pull the shaft and mod it otherwise you will be permanently at risk of the fuel lobe hitting no2 con rod.

When you do you will likely find - as most have - a strike mark from previous contact.

Start with that.

G

[twincamspit]

The experience will probably do me good.

When work permits, I'll get in the garage and remove the pulley and see how to pull the driveshaft out.

Thanks again Guy

[twincamspit]

Well, removing that aux driveshaft was much easier than I expected!

I followed the photos and instructions in Guy's book (apart from improvising one step because I hadn't got a piece of wood to remove the driven gear, so I used a magnet-on-a-stick to retrieve the driven gear).

So the next step is for me to grind off the lobe I assume? That must be the bit on the opposite end of the shaft from where the pulley was attached?
On the 3rd picture I've circled in red the bit that I assume I have to grind down.

If that assumption is correct, do I just need to grind it down so that the widest part of the lobe is the same height as the lowest part?
Or do I cut off the whole end of the shaft approx where I've marked in green?

That end lobe has a shiny band on it that varies in width (pic 4) and also a rough part. I don't know if there's any evidence of a previous 'conrod 2' impact because I don't know what I'm looking for!

Pictures 5 and 6 show the collar; is it meant to have that 'wear' groove in it or does that need replacing?

The last photo shows the driven gear; does that need replacing? The cogs have a little surface rust, but are still sharp, however there is a noticeable 'shiny' part to that too.

Thanks!

Richard

Removing driven gear with magnet-on-a-stick

gc01.jpg (229.93 KiB) Viewed 9218 times

[Guy Croft]

Cut at the green line. Thread out for a 3/8BSP or M14 plug. Don't thread too deep - you'll block the rear oil feed! If you don't have the facilities send to me.

The shaft journals should be polished with fine Scotchbrite. The shaft needs the most THOROUGH clean with brushes and solvent & airline - any swarf/debris in the gallery will shred the bearings. I have often seen this. Clean the horseshoe-shaped thrust collar with same and the groove in the shaft it locates in. Use a new seal and gasket. Email me if you want GC supply.

The rest of the parts nothing untoward there - just wash put them back in. Dunno why there is rust on the driven gear, not a wonderful sight - wonder how much more rust there is in the engine.

With the shaft modified there is no need to worry about timing it up.

As for the pulley I would use a rear-flanged one. Does any reader have a spare? Inlet or ex it doesn't matter. I am forever short of those..

G

[twincamspit]

Thanks Guy. I'll get on that this week after work.

> Thread out for a 3/8BSP or M14 plug. Don't thread too deep - you'll block the rear oil feed! If you don't have the facilities send to me.
I have a tap-and-die set, although it is only a very cheap 'laserline' make. Not sure how well it will cope, so I may well be PM'ing you Guy to get a quote for you to do it properly once I've had a go.

Don't worry about the aux pulley for me thanks, I've got another one sorted.

> The rest of the parts nothing untoward there - just wash put them back in.
Good news, thank you. Advice on new seals / gaskets noted.

Can I just use a cutting wheel in my angle grinder to cut where the green line is?
Or is it best to hacksaw it off manually and slowly?

Thanks,

Richard

[Guy Croft]

Cutting wheel is quicker but be sure to wear gloves and goggles!

G

[twincamspit]

I've decided to take Guy up on his offer of tapping and plugging it rather than take the risk myself

Hello Guy,

I've managed to cut the lobe off (angle-grinder plus rain not a great combination... At least now I know my RCD protector works!)

Below are a couple of photos of the shaft on my kitchen table. Not the most perfect cut, but hopefully you can work with it?

> [after tap and plug] The shaft needs the most THOROUGH clean with brushes and solvent & airline ...

Sorry, what do you mean by solvent? White spirit perhaps?
To date so far I've been using parafin on the really oily things and water and a brush on the less dirty bits, although it certainly has crossed my mind that water is probably not the best to clean iron-based components with!

The surface rust on the driven gear and on this driveshaft pretty much disappeared (see photo) when I ran the components under hot water in the kitchen but it sounds like I should be using a special cleaning solvent instead ; which solvent do you recommend?

Finally, I haven't re-oiled the driveshaft although that's what I usually do after cleaning things. This is because I thought you'd prefer it dry rather than oiled.
If a light coating of 3-in-1 or WD40 is OK, shall I do that before I box it up and post to you Guy?

Thanks

Richard

[Guy Croft]

Which solvent, oil, etc etc..?!!

You DEFINITELY need to buy the new GC book published some 2 years ago!

GC