Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

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Robert
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Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Robert » Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:28 am

Hello,

My engine is a 130TC in a Montecarlo. So the sump and the pickup from Montecarlo but the pump from Fiat Strada 130TC. The clearance was checked and corresponded to the figures found in the GC book . It is equiped with a cooler but bigger than the original 130TC (19 rows). Oil is Castrol 10W60.

I have a problem with the engine: In fact when it stays at rest some weeks, when I crank the oil pressure takes a while to reach the pressure (some seconds up to get the low pressure light off).
Today I could ear clearly that the noise of the engine is not "right" up the light switched off. Knowing the most of the wear of the engine is during this phase of absence of lubrication it is better to have it the shorter.

Do you know if the pump can be "improved" or repaired in order to get pressure quickly (supposing it is the root cause) ?

Thanks a lot

Robert
PS1 : when the engine is cranked everyday there is no such a delay/duration.
PS2 : this phenomenon is increasing with time (the engine has been built 6 years ago)
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Guy Croft
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Guy Croft » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:31 am

It could be fitted with the wrong type of oil filter, it needs an anti-syphon valve...

G
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Oil filter anti-syphon valve.jpg
Oil filter anti-syphon valve.jpg (55.37 KiB) Viewed 3140 times

Robert
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Robert » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:44 pm

Hi Guy

Thank you for the tip. I use a filter for Strada/Ritmo 130TC Purflux LS348. Supposing it is the right type.

Is it a membrane your pen is pointing ? If yes I think it is a track I have to investigate...
Do you have a reference for such a filter ? ("better one who knows than two who search" (direct from French expression))

Robert
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Guy Croft
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Guy Croft » Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:42 am

Yes that is the rubber 'anti-syphon' valve that stops the oil draining back when the engine is turned off.

Fram PH2809 should fit

G

Brit01
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Brit01 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:02 pm

Hi gentlemen,

I just fitted a Fiaam with a anti-drain valve. Didn't work very well.
It has 1 valve clearly see behind the holes.

The oil was at the right level after priming on the dipstick.

Left it 4 days and the oil sump was about 400 ml higher.
Idled it a bit to fill up the filter again and it drained a lot, just a few mm over the max line now, not 400ml extra!!

The Alfa romeo OE filters have 2 anti-drain valves. My current one only has one and it appears it is not working as it should be.

I will try a Mann or Bosch to see if the valve seals better. roll eyes.

I think you need to choose your filter carefully with a proven anti-drain valve. Obviously mine was not working well.

andy wright
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by andy wright » Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:42 pm

Evening,
I know this sounds expensive, but fit an oil accumulator and enjoy 30+ psi of oil pressure before the engine turns over. Guy can source the bits you need if you decide to go down that route.
Andy
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Urbancamo
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Urbancamo » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:20 pm

I have personally found in my own car, that even some filters have anti-drain valve, they just don't work very well. In past years i had to remove couple different filter brands, because they have drained all out in a single day!

I've used these filters on my own car and in Fiat Twincam with great success and never had problems with slow rising oil pressure.

- Fram PH2857A
- Fram PH2861B
- Volvo original blue-white oil filter, made by Bosch or MANN, can't remember


And remember, when Fiat Twincam stays over couple days, both camboxes will go bone dry no matter what the filter is. I've never seen oil in Fiat TC cambox when engine is left alone extended time periods.
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Brit01
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Brit01 » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:20 am

I know this sounds expensive, but fit an oil accumulator and enjoy 30+ psi of oil pressure before the engine turns over. Guy can source the bits you need if you decide to go down that route.
Andy
Thks Andy yes I've heard about these but have no idea of the costs and complexity.
Would be great for the other drivers of my car who do not know how to start it carefully.
- Fram PH2857A
- Fram PH2861B
- Volvo original blue-white oil filter, made by Bosch or MANN, can't remember


And remember, when Fiat Twincam stays over couple days, both camboxes will go bone dry no matter what the filter is. I've never seen oil in Fiat TC cambox when engine is left alone extended time periods.
Yes I will be trying a Mann or Bosch next time with 2 x anti-drain valves. Juts trying to source one that doesn't post by DHL costing me 80 USD for shipping for a 5 pound item.

Regards gentlemen.

Have a nice weekend.

andy wright
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by andy wright » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:23 pm

Evening,
An accumulator costs around £300. The electrically operated solenoid valve, if you wish to fit it, is about another £90. You will then need some oil hose to go from the accumulator to the valve, and then from the valve to the oil filter block, probably in the port occupied by the low pressure warning light switch. The last bit sounds complicated and isn't really. The tricky bit is finding a suitable location for the accumulator. Not a problem if yours is a track/race car; you could probably fit it in the cockpit. I have an Integrale and have fitted mine in the front o/s corner of the engine bay, in place of the battery which has fled to the boot. That made the pipework nice and neat as the filter block is in the same front corner of the engine bay, albeit rather low down. I have mine activated by a 15 sec delay relay with an overide switch for track days.
Andy
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TR-Spider
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by TR-Spider » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:17 pm

The Montecarlo would be ideal for an accusump, as there is quite some space on the driver side of the engine compartment, unlike most front engined cars. (Or behind the copilot rearwall, mounted from underneath)
I have one in my 124 Spider and (once intalled) its a really nice thing to have, no more dry starts or worries in the long corners.

Thomas
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Robert
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Robert » Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:15 pm

Hello all,

I verified my filter. It well contains an anti syphon valve. In addition it is not horizontal but tilted with the input on top so difficult to imagine it drains easily (see picture).
Another picture shows the plate without filter and you can see that the thermostic sandwich is tilted. Is it a possibility to get a drain back problem ? The cooler is higher than the sandwich/plate/filter.

Thank you for your comments.

Robert
Attachments
FilterMounted.JPG
FilterMounted.JPG (128.77 KiB) Viewed 2997 times
ThermostaticSandwich.JPG
ThermostaticSandwich.JPG (122.57 KiB) Viewed 2997 times
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Guy Croft
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Guy Croft » Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:10 am

OK - then I think you almost certainly have worn engine bearings.

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Robert
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Robert » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:16 am

Hello Guy,

Do you have any comment about the "topology"/poritionning of the oil filter and the sandwich thermostatic plate ?
Thanks again.

Robert
[I had a track day yesterday and the revs up to 6250 (shift light) very often (5 times per lap) during the 70 laps (140 km) without any problem. But this winter I will revise (maintenance) the engine in order to look at the bearings.]
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Guy Croft
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Re: Oil pressure priming -Lancia Montecarlo-

Post by Guy Croft » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:16 am

nothing there worries me!

G

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