MSD IGNITION

Road-race engines and ancillaries - general discussion
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n2oxide
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MSD IGNITION

Post by n2oxide » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:22 pm

Gents,

I finally fitted a basic MSD 6AL ignition to my 131. It took me longer to find a place to put the box than it took to wire it up in 5 minutes. First time ever, the engine fires on the turn of the key and without any choke from stone cold and idles as if it was warm. The most precious time of no oil pressure is now eliminated. Two pumps on the throttle, turn the key and broom bromm; like a modern fuel injected car rather than a wild cam tuned engine on 48's. On driving the throttle response has changed and feels more aggressive; no flat spots, no misfires, no hesitation. Engine RPM's to its redline with ease, no struggle to get there and the CO's dropped from around 1400ppm to 1050ppm on idle. When on the limiter, its smooth with no backfires or hestitation when it comes off the limiter. The engine has changed somewhat to somethinga little better. Maybe nothing gained in BHP but the respose and startup alone was worth the money.

So, if you have £280 to spend on your engine, its worth its weight in gold.

Perry
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Urbancamo
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Urbancamo » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:49 pm

Hi Perry;

Nice to hear such a breathtaking change in engine response. Modern ignitions are good.

Could you supply some photos of MSD installation, we all want to see modern parts on Classic Fiat.

Tommi
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Guy Croft
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Guy Croft » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:37 am

Nice post Perry,

readers for your interest Perry left one of these gorgeous MSD systems with me to test though I confess I have not yet.

Having tried the extremely powerful Computronix unit from Allinson Automotive in the USA I am DEFINITELY becoming of the same view as Perry (re: ease of starting, smooth running etc.) that actually it's the powerful spark that transforms the engine and it's by no means necessary to fuel-inject (with the massive costs involved) to achieve those things.

G

Abarthnorway - Remi L
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Abarthnorway - Remi L » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:26 pm

Hi Perry!


I am a bit curious about this ignition.

How does it LOOK?
Where did You place it?
Ease of setting up - programming?
Any pics?

I have absolutely no knowledge of modern ignitions / electronic systems, but I am eager to learn as
I am considering to upgrade the marellibox in my 130 TC.

Thank You!!

Best regards

Remi Lovhoiden
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n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide » Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:51 pm

Pictures ? Its a box, sitting in my glove box ! BIG FAT RED WIRE to the battery; BIG FAT BLACK WIRE TO A NICE CLEAN NEW EARTH under the glove box. The Ignition LIVE to the COIL now connects to the Ignition Red on the MSD and the COIL NEGATIVE now triggers the MSD. The MSD has it's own magic wires to the COIL. It's a no brainer, its no money and it fires the engine on a turn. The missing, pinking, coughing, spluttering and all that SH*T that you get with old engines are GONE ! The smoothness...........feels like I'm driving my AERO (but not as fun) !

Perry
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nabihelosta
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by nabihelosta » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:37 pm

Hello Perry

I am in the process of installing an MSD 6 AL to my Fiat 132, Weber dual 40IDF carbed, with a Magnetti Marelli electronic distributor (on exhaust cambox) with no vacuum advance. I figured out the basic wires connexion myself (fat red +, fat black ground, slim red switched +).
My questions are:
- Do you take the tach signal from the gray wire on MSD? where does it connect on the car?
- In my setup, I should be discarding the white and blue wires (points, hall effect sensor) and using the double magnetic pick up wire. Does it connect directly to the mag pick up terminals? If yes, this means the 4-pin GM module is not used anymore? No wires connect to it?

Thank you for some piece of precious information. I am thinking of buying the new MSD 6 AL-2 programmable box. Locking the distributor advance plate and mapping your own advance curve on a laptop seems my piece of cake. I'm used to that stuff and I love it. Will give feedback soon.

Thank you very much

Nabih
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n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:25 pm

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT........DONT TRY AND GET CLEVER OR YOU WILL GET STUCK !

The coil will now only have the Orange from MSD on the positive and the Black from the MSD on the negative.

The original wire that gave Positive 12v to the coil is now your red switched.
The original wire that was on the Negative on the coil now goes to the WHITE MSD.

Thats it; you only need the grey wire if the tacho wont work, which is usually only on Efi cars.

Unless you have a seriously tuned 8v Fiat Twin Cam, I would lay off the expense of a programmable unit, you will not gain anything.

Perry
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:55 pm

It's a no brainer, its no money and it fires the engine on a turn. The missing, pinking, coughing, spluttering and all that SH*T that you get with old engines are GONE !
Very nice!
280 pounds doesn't sound expensive to me.
The amount of time and effort I've put into my Dellortos on my old Alfa is piling up.
Still haven't got them where I want them. Hesitations or bogging down! Hot weather then I get pinking on the highway overtaking or it's too retarded.


Sounds like an ideal solution. I must look this one up.
Where did you purchase the system?
MSD Ignition Digital 6AL Ignition Control With Rev Limiter?
TIMING CURVE MODULES
The PN 6010 Controller is supplied with six modules that plug into the side of the housing (Figure 3). The modules are labeled Curve 1, Curve 2, etc. By plugging in one of the modules, the timing curve will be set with a pre-programmed curve upon power-up of the Controller
Did you receive these modules with the kit? 6 different timing curves!

What comes included in the kits?

n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:15 pm

Suggest you just buy the 6AL and get it going; dont start mesing with add on modules that adjust timing. You really need to know what your doing. Unless you have true understanding of detonation then just use the MSD 6AL for the spark energy.

They are available ALL OVER THE PLANET !

Perry
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:50 pm

So sorry for the dumb questions as I thought this worked off a crank sensor and used a dizzyless coil pack for the spark plugs.

This is a module that connects between the original coil and distributor you have providing a stronger spark?
How does it provide a smoother curve and eliminate issues such as hesitations, cold starts and pinging with no other sensors?

Regards

Chris

n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:05 pm

135-145 mJ per spark, Primary Voltage:520-540 Volts, Secondary Voltage:45,000 Volts and this MULTIPLE energy spark, not a single spark.

Patented worldwide and not available elsewhere.............whatever any other ignition manufacturer says.

You need to burn the mixture completely, not just get it into the chamber !

Just don't touch the HT leads, or you will not be posting here again !

Primarily designed for Elaborate Fuels ( Like C16 and C12 ) and for use with Nitrous Oxide Injection, Alcohol and Nitromethane Fuels.

You need to go the MSD website and have a read. www.msdignition.com

Perry
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:15 pm

Thanks mate.

Beginning to understand the system now. As it fires multiple times and for 20 degrees(depending on rpm) this would help to eliminate bogging down when too much fuel is pumped from the fuel jets for example?

MULTIPLE SPARKS
The MSD produces full power multiple sparks for each firing of a plug. The number of multiple sparks that occur decreases as rpm increases, however the spark series always lasts for 20° of crankshaft rotation. Above 3,000 rpm there is simply not enough “time” to fire the spark plug more than once, so there is only one powerful spark.


What coil and distributor are you using? What plugs are you using? It recommends R type plugs.
I currently use B7ES. I would need a BR7ES or BPR7ES possibly?

nabihelosta
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by nabihelosta » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:56 pm

Perry

Are you sure your car has a Marelli electronic distributor? With no points?
As far as I know, MSD WHITE wire is connected to the points. I have a magnetic pick up not points, with 2 wires. Any chance that I should use the double (green-violet) MSD wire out the mag pickup and discard the white wire?

I'm very doubtful about this setup sorry man.

Thanks a lot

Nabih
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:51 pm

What about Summit boxes? 135 USD with rev limiter.

n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide » Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:09 pm

Nabih,
Yes, electronic. Not trying to be rude, but your missing what I'm saying. NOTHING TOUCHES THE COIL when you have an MSD ignition EXCEPT the MSD Orange and Black Wires. HENCE this is why you use the Positive to the coil as a switch to the small red on the MSD and then the Negative to the coil to signal the MSD. The NEGATIVE to the coil gets its signal from somewhere.........your points of you have or your magnetic trigger ( on distributor or crank ) - so this is the wire that tells the MSD to multi spark at the correct point. The 131 is not the only car to have an MSD, I have 9 cars all with an MSD. Its nothing complicated, its just an amazing spark energy you will not find from any other unit.

And my friend in Uruguay...........its cheaper for a reason. It does not do anything more than give a little more spark energy. Its MSD and everyone else. It has to be a genuine unit not a China copy; and there are plenty of those about. See my other post. Don't get me wrong, I buy loads of stuff every week from Summit, but when it comes to MSD, you only buy the genuine components.

As Chairman of the Sunbeam Lotus Owners' Club, nearly all my club members now have an MSD apart from the Historic Works Cars (for obvious reasons) and Original Concours Cars. Apart from a few cars that are on Efi setups, almost all standard and modifies cars that are in use have a basic MSD 6-AL.

Perry
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