MSD IGNITION

Road-race engines and ancillaries - general discussion
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 »

The existing positive to the coil is removed and connected to the MSD small red
The existing negative to the coil is removed and connected to the MSD small white
Perry,

I have read the MSD instructions well now and don't appear too complicated.


It states as you have done (but ONLY for points system)

-From ignition Key (original coil positive wire) to MSD small red
-From points or elctronic ignition amplifier (original coil negative wire) to MSD white wire.

Grey wire to Tach output = Is this for an aftermarket tachometer or my original tachometer?

Currently my coil has 2 spade connectors on each of the + and - connections. I need to check that out further. Is this just a loop circuit maybe?
csi2000s
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by csi2000s »

Here it is chaps! Complete used MSD 6A with instructions and the coil in the box for $150 AUD which converts to about 100 GBP. A bargain!
I'll be fitting it on monday so there will be a report on the difference it makes very soon.
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MSD 6A and SS blaster coil
MSD 6A and SS blaster coil
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 »

Great!
Eager to see how it works on your set up also.

I was looking at the wiring from my coil and the green wire coming out from the distributor goes to a wide plastic connector which slots into a female connector next to what looks like some kind of processor module under the coil.
Then had to do some errands running out of time.

This is a view of my distributor with the rotor arm off.
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dizzy small.JPG
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 »

Just to confirm this is an electronic magnetic pick up type.
So I believe I need to connect just the small red wire to the coil postive (ignition key).

And then connect the green and violet wires to the pick up from the distributor as shown in the MSD schematics.

The small white is not used (well it can be used as an anti-theft device by using a switch which is grounded)..
You agree Perry?

Hope I don't need a tach adapter for this. How did you hook it up to the rev counter?
n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide »

Chris,

The WHITE wire takes a signal from WHAT WAS your coil negative. Your RPM signal comes from whatever was at the other end of that coil negative wire !

All the MSD does is fire the coil ( albeit in a manner you cannot comprehend just yet ! ) - Hence nothing touches the coil apart from the MSD ORANGE/BLACK.

You do not need to connect the grey tacho wire. This is for competition cars that have no wiring ciruits for amplifiers etc. or for shift lights. The grey wire is a tacho signal ouput.

OCCASIONALLY the MSD on certain amplifiers sucks the life out of it at higher RPM's and the RPM needle may BOUNCE. Its rare but it happens. This is when we discuss further and I explain how the Grey wire or a $40 tach adaptor will help. But ONLY and ONLY IF your tacho needle starts doinga 'Mambo' at 5,500 rpm is when we will go into this.
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n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide »

Brit01 wrote:Just to confirm this is an electronic magnetic pick up type.
And then connect the green and violet wires to the pick up from the distributor as shown in the MSD schematics.

The small white is not used (well it can be used as an anti-theft device by using a switch which is grounded)..
You agree Perry?
Chris, NO. Your reading to much into the distributor magnetic pickup. Wiring as described previosly.....DO NOT TOUCH YOUR distributor.

Whatever is at the other end of your negative wire is already giving your tacho a signal. The MSD at the other end ( which was your coil negative ) is utilising that signal to fire the MSD.

How does your coil work; as long as your ignition is ON, it energises the coil through the positive terminal. Wherever your engine gets its 'firing signal' from, which is more than likely the distributor, this tells the amplifier to give an earth the the coil which takes power AWAY from it at the precise time it needs to fire and then re-energise. ALL THE MSD DOES IS TAKE THIS PRIVILAGE AWAY FROM YOUR EXISTING IGNITION SYSTEM and does the work itself. Hence nothing apart from the MSD is connected to the coil. Your existing distributor, distributor signal, rpm readings are all doing exactly what they are doing before. Its just the MSD doing the sparking. The MSD generates the energy through a massive capacitor backwards through the coil using the positive connection to interupt/intermit the firing point, thus storing the energy in its own gubbins rather than in the coil. In other words, the MSD has the energy already stored that the coil has lost in its last spark. BUT even better, is that it multi sparks at a much higher energy rate than any coil can achieve.

Think about the high capacity in car audio systems that run 18" subs and 5,000 watt amplifiers............they all run CAPACITORS so that current is available at each point the sub goes 'BOOM'. Very similar but less expensive.

The primary factor of electronics is knowing what a transistor does. The secondary factor of this understanding is knowing the difference between voltage, current and load. Give up trying to understand the MSD if you do not know what a transistor does. Just wire it up and enjoy the easy starting, hot and cold start issues and elimination of missfiring that it provides.

Do not mention again about connecting your distributor to the green and voilet wires. Your car wont start becuase you have taken its ability to give your tach signal to the ignition amplifier which the MSD ie reliant on a signal from.

Perry
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 »

Thanks very much for the excellent write up. As Guy would say MODEL POST.

I have a good understanding of electronics as I design and build my own vacuum tube amplifiers. Also rebuilt a Carver power amp a few years ago as it had a large DC offset on one channel.

I will use your instructions and fire it up as you say without touching the tach wires/signal.
Looking forward to see the results.

Kind regards,

Chris
n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide »

I'll need a holiday after all this. Looks like its going to be Uruguay !

Perry
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 »

Lol.

You'll have to wait until Jan/Feb for the summer time! Maybe a trip to Punta Del Este?

Mind you the traffic is like Italy. Not much fun until you're out in the country.
The horn is used (and hand gestures) more than the mirror, brakes or indicators!

Chris
n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide »

Being half Greek and half Greek Cypriot, I know exactly what you mean about hand signals.........indicators, brakes and mirrors may as well not be fitted.

Perry
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csi2000s
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by csi2000s »

AMAZING TRANSFORMATION!

I couldn't wait till monday so I ditched the fishing trip I had planned for this morning and wired it up using Perry's simple instructions. It took longer to mount it in the engine bay and tidy up the wiring that it did connecting that magic red box!

I turned the key and the engine started with no hitches. When I took off and went for a drive it felt like a new, different, and much more responsive car. Just do it Chris! It's all true! Don't worry how it works just connect the wires and drive!

Thanks Perry for all your time and effort educating the rest of us on this great piece of kit.

thank you
Angelo
n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide »

I'll get my hat and coat now.............

Perry
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Guy Croft
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Guy Croft »

MODEL THREAD

Numerous good posts and some excellent ones. Particularly informative by Perry, very big thanks there. Good to see your feedback Chris.

Well-done all.

GC
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Brit01
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by Brit01 »

Please don't put your coat and hat on yet Perry.

I have drawn a schematic as I have a loop on each connector of the original coil.
Not just one wire.

I understand clearly the + from the coil goes now to the MSD small red and - to the small white but which end of the loop? This is my confusion pending.
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coil set up.jpg
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n2oxide
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Re: MSD IGNITION now available on a 131

Post by n2oxide »

Chris,

You don not loop anything.

PULL OFF whatever is connected to the COIL POSITIVE and connect that to the MSD small red
PULL OFF whatever is connected to the COIL NEGATIVE and connect that to the MSD small white

Then the MSD small orange is connected to the COIL POSITIVE - nothing else
Then the MSD small black ( which is sheathed with the small orange ) is connected to the COIL NEGATIVE

(Make sure you snip the two loops wires which change the MSD from V8, to V6 to 4 cylinder)

I don't need to tell you again where the BIG FAT ONES go.............

Dont connect any other wires, dont touch anything else.......not even your distributor.

You see, this way, its also reversible for a million reasons I wont go into !

Perry
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