Tilton race clutch installation/operation problems

[cantfindausername]

I've still got a problem with my Tilton Twin Disc Cerametallic clutch not disengaging. I am trying to turn the wheels with it in gear while pressing the pedal.
To date, I've not been able to accomplish this. I've been told that this should be possible.

As a step to stop me from going totally insane, I wanted to thrash out the components of the clutch system, if they're working, how they've been tested,
and see if anyone can identify an area that I've missed, overlooked or just not thought of.

So here goes...

pedal/push rod
- push rod has been adjusted by aprx 5mm
? not sure how far out it can be adjusted
? not sure on issues of over adjusting

master cylinder
- tested by removing hard line and dropping the pedal - fluid squirted upto the bonnet with ease

hard line
- no visible leaks from master cylinder to flexi line

flexi line
- no leaks

braided line
- no leaks
- new fittings on bearing

release bearing
- no leaks
- throwing more than the required 0.25" that should be needed to release the clutch

bleed line
- no leaks

clutch assembly
- plates in correct location and direction
- plates move freely on input shaft splines
- alignment is perfect
- clutch correctly torqued

Other potential issue areas
- Flywheel - Correctly fitted, friction plate contact surface correct height.
- Gearbox & Diff - Operating correctly. Engine has run while in gear. Gears can be selected when not running.


When the pedal was first pushed after bleeding, the release bearing took up the clearence between it and the spring fingers - http://www.car13.net/images/project/proj0782.jpg
When the pedal is pushed, the bearing moves straight away. Here is a video of the bearing in operation. http://www.car13.net/videos/project/rel ... aring2.wmv

Can someone please end my 2006 or start my 2007 with some kind of miracle that will get this clutch working so I can have my car back.

Thanks,
Ant
Happy New Year!!

[Guy Croft]

Yes, it would be annoying!

Sounds like the slave cylinder is 'over-stroking' - too much forward movement on actuator spindle. This can push the clutch cover springs onto the plates and jam them. Behaves exactly as if the clutch were not disengaged.

Have you checked that? If you ahve that problem make sure you haven't damaged the clutch.

Those clutches don't need a lot of 'throw', just a light 'kiss' on the pedal. Move the slave cyl back until it won't acuate at all then move progressively forward until you can just disengage the drive.

GC

[cantfindausername]

Thanks Guy.

The way we tested it was to put pressure on the drive wheels, then slowly depress the clutch pedal so it goes from no stroke to (eventually) full stroke. At no point during this travel does it become free to move.

This weekend we took the gearbox and clutch back off again, and checked the plates movements on the splines. I was surpised to see that they slide full length of the input shaft under their own weight when on aprx 15degree angle... so they are plenty free enough on the splines.

I've run through this with a few people and it would appear that there is a problem with the clutch pack.

Its the only thing that it can be. We have checked, and double checked every component of the hydralic system. The video above shows we have almost double the "required" movement in the piston/slave cylinder. There just doesn't appear to be anything else we can check. Even Tilton have run out of suggestions.

This is meant to be an out of the box solution... its been far from that.

Its a real head scratcher, we've measured everything we can against the tech drawing, and it seems fine. The only thing we haven't been able to check is the actual clutch cover, where the spring fingers are. In the video, it looks like this is flexing. So I'm wondering if this is in effect removing the pivotal movement of the spring fingers and not allowing the clutch to disengage.

Other than that I have nothing.

I'm calling Tilton tonight again to discuss, because at the moment, I have a clutch that doesn't work for no apparent reason.

[Guy Croft]

Use engineers' blue on the clutch springs (fingers) and actuate the master cylinder and then have a look where the rel brg is sitting in actual operation.

Then unbolt the clutch assy and flwywheel too and put the whole thing (bolted up) on a heavy duty drill press or simple flypress and see what happens when you simulate clutch being depressed. The thing will either release the cover clamp load and allow the plates to spin - or not.

GC

[Rich Ellingham]

There's no possible change that the cover plate is a pull type rather then a push type. The only reason I can think is if there is something physically stopping the plates from spinning with clutch depressed.

Rich

[cantfindausername]

Thanks for the replies fellas.

I'm going to call Tilton later on tonight. I don't want to go blue'ing up the springs before running past them. If they need it back I might just send it them, but will ask them if its worth running this test where you bolt it all together and press it.

The spec says that the springs have a release load of 565lbs. In real life, what sort of pressure is that? Will I need a press to do it? I think I could probaly use the one at my gearbox guys workshop if I need to. Thing is, I just don't want to go wasting much more time on this thing if its not going to work.

Someone I discussed it with said I might be able to just get the flywheel skimmed to give some clearence. Thoughts on that?

[Acki]

Pressure plate is right installed?

[cantfindausername]

yes all plates are installed right.

Just got off the phone with Greg @ Tilton, and he's going to email me if he can come up with any ideas. He thinks the jig/press idea is a good one, and definately one to try.

Just got to get a jig made up for bolting the flywheel too, and turn something that will dummy the bearing. Then get it on a press... nice easy task for a 9-5 office worker... this week wont pass quick enough!

[Acki]

Offset etc. is correct?

[Guy Croft]

Ant, don't go making things just for that, send to me, I've done this loads of times and I'll test it same/next day FOC if you pay carriage, I don't need any more than FW, clutch complete and dims/photo of rel bearing.

GC

[cantfindausername]

Guy I might just take you up on that!!

I'm going to go to the garage tonight to remove the flywheel so will get it all weighed up and find out how much the carrage is. I've done a quote using the advertised weights in the catalogue and with ParcelForce Noon Next Day, its ‚£19.00.

How would you want me to pay for return carriage?

Pictures of the RB are not a problem. Will get some high res shots of it with measurements etc and send you the URLs to where I will host them.

Really appreciate your offer of help Guy. You're a star!

Will keep you updated.

Ant

[Guy Croft]

That's good, it will come back by my carrier, ‚£15 plus vat insured, just put your return address and phone and I'll call you to get your cc to pay that.

OK?

GC

[cantfindausername]

Sounds good to me Guy!

Will get it sorted asap and notify you as and when its arranged.

I assume that I'll send it to the address listed about?

[cantfindausername]

I have just had the clutch professionally tested.

It showed to be working exactely as specified in the supporting documents that came with it.

Plates became disengaged at a fraction over 6mm, which is spot on for the ~1/4" as stated by Tilton.

Had a good discussion about the various tests that I had done, and the only thing left really, is to replace the master cylinder - So a new one is on order for collection this weekend hopefully.

This will mean that every part of the clutch system has been replaced apart from the pedal assembly, and hard lines.

Here are some pictures from the test...

[cantfindausername]

Well I replaced the Master Cylinder today, and then refitted the flywheel, clutch and bearing. Got the box back on, and then hooked the system up. Gave it a good bleed and then tried it. Was getting piston stroke, but not a lot.

Got into the footwell and adjusted the push rod on the pedal and tried again. Still not enough stroke though.

So got the old MC and checked how much you could wind out the push rod and duplicated this on the new one.

Gave a whirl... and hey presto... I could spin the plates!!!

I'm over the moon at this!!

Just got to get the turbo rebuilt now as I have a bent blade.

Once again, thanks to Guy for his expert advice!

Just for reference, the MC I'm using is a 5/8" when Tilton recommned a 3/4" one. I will be looking at replacing this later down the line as currently the disengagement is done litterally on the floor.

Ant