Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Non-engine, eg: aerodynamics, gearboxes, brakes, suspension
delta303
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: UK greater London.
Contact:

Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by delta303 » Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:03 am

Hi , all

I have an RPlab ECU with a 8v kat engine Lancia integrale attached to it,

Does anyone have similar , in progress?

Id like to compare from the settings I have now , to stock maps , and also to any 8v competition maps , mild tune or even older Grp A map settings..
Would like to learn more and any info is welcome .

Any known data availbe be would be useful for comparison . .
Seems to be a shortage of meat and potatoes regarding .

I can share my current remap if you anyones interested in the data ,


Thanks
GC Book # 385

Alex RP
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Kosovo, Southern Europe
Contact:

Re: Lancia delta integrale 8v / 8v kat ignition maps Request

Post by Alex RP » Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:55 pm

Hi Paul,

First, as a general note, I would strongly advise against experimenting with ignition maps optimizied for different engine configurations. Be assured that a Gr. A map would be miles away from the optimum for your engine. It couldn't even be used for comparison, as it has different breakpoints and different ignition advance values - as, at the end it is to be used with an engine, operating under different conditions, sharing not more than bore and stroke with a typical Delta 8v unit. Let alone the cat version.

I suppose that the OE ignition maps can be found in the workshop manual, and due to copyright issues, which are quite right taken very seriously on this forum - could not be posted. Guy?

But as I am working as a calibration engineer at RP Lab, I might be able to help with some specific tuning tips. Would you be so kind to specify your RP Lab ECU number? I could check in the database which hardware and firmware revision you have, i.e. which features you have on board.

It would be also necessary to make a structured list of well described engine specifications. Short descriptions like "C&B racing cams" do not help much, as depending on how you time them, completely different ignition advance could be necessary. Instead, for each cam specify at least advertised duration @ valve clearance, set valve lash, lift at TDC, maximal lift, valve openining and closing angles. Please do this even if you have stock cams, as I do not have specs available for the 8v.

How big is MAP at idle (at which revs)? How big is it at steady 80 and 120 km/h in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear (and at which revs)?

What is the highest temperature you observed in the intake manifold under load (consider summer months, with engine preferrably soaking heat in city traffic before highway use)? If you don't have summer data, as an alternative, let the car idle, but cover the hood and front air inlets with blankets. Wait until the radiator fan engages. As soon as it stops, turn off the engine and observe inlet manifold temperatures. After the peak has been reached, remove the blankets, start the engine and drive for about 2 kilometers under moderate to heavy load. Note the average temperature in the intake manifold during that time and subtract it from average environmental air temperature. Then add typical summer air temperature to this value, and report it back here. Please also post resulting logs of intake temperature as Excel charts.

Do you have at least some basic equipment to listen to engine knock? Did you try to optimize ignition in the low load portion of the map? I would recommend starting there first, as the risk to components is the lowest.

Since you are in the UK, you can of course consider "outsourcing" ignition map calibration once if you feel unconfortable mapping it on your own for the first time. You could then use the opportunity to observe how pros do it and which equippment they use (not to be underestimated), so you could do it on your own the next time.

Sorry that I could not give you easy guidelines to follow, but with ignition maps there are few shortcuts to be made.

Best regards,
Alex
P.S. Please note that I am going to try to help you in my very limited free time, and I am by no means a replacement for the official RP Lab support.
A. Petri
rp-lab.com

Guy Croft
Site Admin
Posts: 5003
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK
Contact:

Re: Lancia delta integrale 8v / 8v kat ignition maps Request

Post by Guy Croft » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:10 am

Thanks for writing Alex.

Re:

"I suppose that the OE ignition maps can be found in the workshop manual, and due to copyright issues, which are quite right taken very seriously on this forum - could not be posted. Guy?"

Quite right.

Please tell me here about RP Lab. I wrote a pm to Nik the other day. Did that prompt you to reply here? He did not write back to me although he is a site member. Who owns RP Lab? Who represents them (say in the UK), where are they based etc.
I know a fair bit about other FI system mfr but through no fault of yours RP Lab is a bit of a mystery to me.

Thanks,

G

delta303
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: UK greater London.
Contact:

Re: Lancia delta integrale 8v / 8v kat ignition maps Request

Post by delta303 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:35 pm

Hi Paul.. Hi , Thanks for the detailed reply .

My ECU number is INT Paul 1097 , it has fully programmeable maps , + extras both ALC and Launch control and the AUXs ins .
A Wide band sensor is connected to AUX 1 in . A 2.5 bar map sensor is employed over the stock 2bar absolute OE .
Engine is stock but with the addition of a fully worked GC head unit + matched inlet ports , with OE 8v Exhaust cam + Lancia Beta 2L N/A inlet cam provided by GC , the Cams timing is set standard with the OE marks.

I have no plans for ultimate performace with high boost in fact I run near standard turbo boost.
And am looking to save fuel rather than waste more , a little more torque is something I’m hoping for along the way.
I have 440cc injectors running 2.5bar with OEM EVO1 16v regulator fed by a DA-27 pump ,
fuelling now has plenty of head room for the heavy foot.

The exhaust is a one piece stainless 2.5inch straight through from the turbo back with the OEM exhaust manifold.
EGR and Exhaust cat and resonators where removed a long time ago.

The 8v kat ECU also has a knock sensor that is read by the ECU, it has never detonated or ran lean at all during fuel map tuning as I carefully made sure to do most of the tuning off boost around 3000 miles mapped.
However it did run intermittent lead / rich for a while with the Walbro pump , I spotted about to fail on the logs now replaced.
that pump had only made around 25kmiles off use 4-5 years before going bad , and it also seems they all do this at least in the posts I found regarding issues on many non Lancia cars. I would not known about this pump issue without an Enhanced ECU :) at least so early , Wideband logger
So I’m lucky.

It is of interest to me to compare the maps and other settings of competition and stock or mildly tuned 8v’s such as my own ,
at the moment I have no other maps other than my own in RP labs format for the ECU.

Also to check that my map is correctly setup with some reference , I would not simply copy data from A to B etc .
I always like to compare myself and learn before making any changes to the setup regarding Ignition.
I am aware of the damage that can be caused by bad guess work or more rather pot luck .
I have quite successfully remapped the entire Fuel map to suit my new injectors with the use of the Wideband via AUX1.
It was very rich to begin with as you can imagine , now leaving some 20% − 25% spare for future alternative setup.
Im sure theres more room for improvement regarding trims.

Im happy to share my map, "NOT OEM" freely , and with logs , I doubt at this time its perfect as I have only been tuning it for 9 months on road for the current fuelling also changing the pump and regulator due to failure mid way made for problems and redoing the whole thing twice,
fuel trim is still something of a grey area at the moment.

"It would be also necessary to make a structured list of well described engine specifications. Short descriptions like "C&B racing cams" do not help much, as depending on how you time them, completely different ignition advance could be necessary. Instead, for each cam specify at least advertised duration @ valve clearance, set valve lash, lift at TDC, maximal lift, valve openining and closing angles. Please do this even if you have stock cams, as I do not have specs available for the 8v."

The Head is fully reworked by GC , standard timing with a Beta 2L N/A inlets cam : Guy do you have this data , thanks ?

"How big is MAP at idle (at which revs)? How big is it at steady 80 and 120 km/h in 3rd, 4th and 5th gear (and at which revs)?"

Low points 750 RPM to 1200RPM @ + 177 to 400millibar .

I will pm you my map and last log file . looking at the ignition ,
it seems incorrectly setup I do understand some of those point don’t or won’t get used often , but still it seems not 100% .

"What is the highest temperature you observed in the intake manifold under load (consider summer months, with engine preferrably soaking heat in city traffic before highway use)? If you don't have summer data, as an alternative, let the car idle, but cover the hood and front air inlets with blankets. Wait until the radiator fan engages. As soon as it stops, turn off the engine and observe inlet manifold temperatures. After the peak has been reached, remove the blankets, start the engine and drive for about 2 kilometers under moderate to heavy load. Note the average temperature in the intake manifold during that time and subtract it from average environmental air temperature. Then add typical summer air temperature to this value, and report it back here. Please also post resulting logs of intake temperature as Excel charts."

I can take an inlet reading from the ECU ATC logged one from summer this year , and on from now.
Summer temp around 27c on boost 1.1 bar and 40c idle up to temp , Ambient temp around 20c
Winter Temp around 25c on boost 1.1 bar and 34c idle up to temp , Ambient temp around 5c

"Do you have at least some basic equipment to listen to engine knock? Did you try to optimize ignition in the low load portion of the map? I would recommend starting there first, as the risk to components is the lowest. “

Yes ,
Definitely .
this is the area I’m most interested in at this time. " the low load portion of the map?”..
In the image below , you can see settings of 10 increasing to 17 is this correct in line with OEM maps it seems out of bonk..

Many thanks and seasonal tidings.

Paul .
map standard ign.JPG
My Ignition map as is.
map standard ign.JPG (240.97 KiB) Viewed 6320 times
GC Book # 385

Alex RP
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Kosovo, Southern Europe
Contact:

Re: Lancia delta integrale 8v / 8v kat ignition maps Request

Post by Alex RP » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:26 pm

@Guy:
RP Lab is privately owned company, based in Prishtina, Kosovo. It was founded in 2003, by a small group of enthusiasts, with interest in engine management and motorsport. Nik was there at the beginning, but then decided to pursue his academic career further. At the moment there are two groups within RP. The first one is developing and distributing diagnostics tools and programmable control unit conversions for classic Fiat, Lancia, Ford Cosworth, Ferrari F40 etc Weber Marelli "IAW" control units. The second group (which I belong to) is offering engineering services (as a subcontractor) to corporate customers.
In the UK, some Cosworth oriented products are distributed through Motorsport Developments, based in Blackpool, and for the rest the first group is dealing directly with the customers.
I hope this will demystify the company's background a bit.

@Paul:
I don't know OE cam specs for Beta and Integrale 8v, sorry. I think I have seen an excellent article on cam timing in GC virtual workshop, please take a look there. OE timing marks are fine, as long as OE cams are used and total distance between pulleys is maintained. If you have had the head resurfaced and/or changed head gasket thickness, it is worth rechecking. I am unaware how big are the tolerances of the pulley-cam dowels and whether dowel location has been consistent between Beta and Integrale, but I assume you have checked this.

Back to your ECU, it is an older generation hardware (as you supplied it for modification), but still, it is having very recent firmware and has been loaded with all additional features that hardware platform can support. It can do knock sensing, and you should have the possibility to adjust RPM based knock threshold map. Knock sensor is not located perfectly on Integrale, with its position in cylinder head picking lot of drive train induced mechanical noise. Thus, the thresholds are set higher from factory.

I will try to source a close to stock Integrale 8v map and post it here for reference.

Regards,
Alex
A. Petri
rp-lab.com

NickRP
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:26 pm
Location: Nis, Serbia, Europe (A)
Contact:

Re: Lancia delta integrale 8v / 8v kat ignition maps Request

Post by NickRP » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:48 am

Paul, in the ignition map you posted - I believe that the steep change between 915 and 1373 mbar at low revs not exactly right. However, the region above 1000 mbar at these revs is irrelevant. As I have some first hand experience (a bit out of date, though) with that type of engine I would suggest to:
1. Delete 177 mbar row, you will never go there in low revs, and under high revs fuel cutoff will be active anyway. Alex, can you please confirm that a separate ignition advance (i.e. not from this main table) is used under cutoff?
2. Shift the rows between 296 and 915 one row lower.
3. Insert a row for approx 1000 mbar (or whatever your average altitude uncorrected air pressure is) after 915 mbar and populate it like this: 8 10 10 15 20 20 25 25 27.5 30 30 30 30 30 30.....

Build a simple device to listen to engine knock. Instructions on how to make it are available online at many sources, constructions ranging from copper pipe attached to the engine block, and connected to medical stethoscope using flexible piping to modified amplifiers for hearing impaired persons. You will not be sorry for building this gadget, it is worth 10x its weight and size in gold.

Now disconnect compressed air duct between intercooler and intake manifold, and mount some kind of air filter to the throttle body. Make sure it is not drawing under bonnet hot air (congrats, you have just converted your engine to N/A). Put some screening over remaining end of boost piping. I usually pull a sock over the pipe and fasten it using a regular hose clamp.

Using lowest grade fuel you plan to use for the car, optimize ignition advance at WOT. If you have doubts on fueling, confirm and adjust that first. You will need a skilled driver, or a computer operator to perform this operation. Driver should maintain WOT, and keep revs steady at the breakpoint computer operator is applying, using brake. The operator should increase ignition advance at this point, until light pinking is audible (with a bit of practice, you can't miss it). Start at low revs (say 1000), to gain experience first in the uncritical area. Back of timing around 3 degrees, and proceed to the next point. With all the points done, you have now a base ignition curve. Post that curve here and I will try to help you further.

Regards,
Nik

Guy Croft
Site Admin
Posts: 5003
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK
Contact:

Re: Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by Guy Croft » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:03 am

Thanks Alex & Nik for engaging with Paul & his 8v Integrale.

Without wishing to mess up the the thread & regarding RpLab then,

"P.S. Please note that I am going to try to help you in my very limited free time, and I am by no means a replacement for the official RP Lab support"

...who/where exactly are the official support if the UK-based Blackpool firm are Cosworth oriented? I ask in the nicest possible way because this is not the first time someone I know has tried to establish comms with that support.

G

Alex RP
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Kosovo, Southern Europe
Contact:

Re: Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by Alex RP » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:46 pm

Guy, I have just checked with the support: Paul has been in contact with them since mid 2010, and up to now more than 100 emails have been exchanged. Although I am not aware of the communication details, nor providing user support belongs to my job description, I hope he is satisfied with the contact. If not, he should report it, and I am sure this matter is going to be taken most seriously.

As said in my post from above, RP Lab is dealing directly with UK based customers of non Cosworth related products. Each customer has been informed (at latest at the time of purchase) about the ways to receive technical support (per email and over telephone). I am sure Motorsport Developments are also kind to direct non Cosworth potential customers to us.

Since you actually know someone who wanted to establish the contact (to no avail?), would you be so kind to provide some more details and I will inform those in charge. Or if the person(s) is/are member(s) of this forum, they could PM me at any time with the details.

On RP Lab webisite (see my signature), there is a page Contact Us, where all the contact details are also writen. I will repeat relevant ones shortly:
General Information: info@rp-lab.com
Sales: sales@rp-lab.com
Customer Support: support@rp-lab.com
Telephone: +37744501864

Out of couriosity, I entered "rp lab" in google, and our website was the first hit.

Regards,
Alex
A. Petri
rp-lab.com

delta303
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: UK greater London.
Contact:

Re: Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by delta303 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:16 am

Summer idle
Note: Wide band AUX1 data N/A for summer , was not fitted at this time . But idle fuelling same AFR . + - 1%.
Also
Note: Throttle Position was increased a little in log winter time , was made by hand adjustment ,
for better top level injector pulse width if needed , wider throttle % in software , not seen in log see fuelling..
summer idle log 2011.jpg
Summer idle 2011
summer idle log 2011.jpg (390.89 KiB) Viewed 6288 times

Winter . Note Idle ARF successfully tuned with Narrow band Lambda only around 0.84v lambda voltage , for test off boost running / remap..
Was improved a little during winter see lambda volts .
i.e see lambda + - calling +- 1 % on idle. Cross ref with Wideband approx 15 AFR . Trims may improve , How to set ? Need to understand..
winter idle log.jpg
winter idle log.jpg (358.22 KiB) Viewed 6289 times

Key = :-
Log Key .jpg
Log Key .jpg (63.75 KiB) Viewed 6289 times

Current fuelling , Idle fuelling ditto.

Fuelling Map, Not optimised , but still good fueling AFR within Map ,

Note: Using 440 cc Modern Unknown Bnew possibly Focus STI OEM ford injectors with 2.5 bar Pressure ,
via Lancia delta integrale EVO1 16 valve reg set @ 2.5bar.

Injector infos :

Connector - 2 pin mini timer (Bosch EV1) plug type , Impedance - High (12 ohms) ,
01D058A , 1M509F593AA , 2952 , maybe lucas or bosch .. Ford focus ST ?? Ford part number not traceable.
“any infos / spec on the part number please post”..:)

Note: "Integrale 8v kat and 8v integrale ECU , normally Low Ohms injectors” , you can’t use high OHM with out a ECU mod , Please ask RPlab for detailed info regarding this info..

Note 8v non kat version does not have lambda sensor. OEM 8v fuel map only 16x13 fuelling .

Adjustments to alter fuel can be made once other IGN optimised . .

A good AFR is seen while driving. AFR=Air Fuel Ratios, Cruise is similar to idle at all speeds other than above 4000rpm .
i.e if so richer to around 12.5 AFR . . . .
or on boost , 11.8 high to 10.4 rich approaching 6k RPM.
Fuel map boost upper, optimised for 1.2 bar max approx. Peak turbo pressure +-1 psi.
I may increase upper row millibar to give extra over boost protection.
If upper limit boost higher any in future and scale down to 2nd row same AFR if so ..

i.e I’m sure there is a much finer tune over the OEM settings “Smaller map matrix” for fuelling already.
This map will be improved in finer detail later next year or to suit boost upper limit as needed .
I have some changes in mind.


fueling current.jpg
fueling current.jpg (280.02 KiB) Viewed 6288 times
Here is possible next fuel map high boost or similar. running
i.e to allow for over boost if malfunction occur with waste gate , but still top turbo boost only 1.19 bar peak..
i.e there is plenty of fuel at 255 with the 440 injectors and decent pump.
feul map up boost.JPG
quick edit approximation ..
feul map up boost.JPG (156.73 KiB) Viewed 6288 times
The Boost upper limit if increased can be adjusted to suit so the AFR of the normal driving high boost condition of 1.19bar max peak ,
suits in range between top and second from top feuling rows within the fuel map on boost…
This is far from complete. The logged fuel maps 95% complete for off boost running apart from less used fuel map matrix cells.
Perhaps more than a years data from winter to summer may provide these finer points and to allow increased safety over the good margin in place.

Any infos regarding this matter of tuning or pointers on mapping would be acknowledged , I am Learning but hopefully have a small grasp .
Many thanks to RPlab for perfect service over the last year .
also thanks to GC for exhaust setup infomation and other check data made during warmer months.

Wasted spark now fitted , “no rotor arm” using twin EDIS ACCELL coil pack “Ford fiesta Turbo coil Ford Style and HT leads”.Partly Pictured .
Note: setting made within upgraded ECU to enable function .
Note: the amps are now matched , they are both Ford Cosworth OEM parts Marelli “the grey one” , Part No. BLK 3 .
Planning on replacing both amps with new , also a later part number next year as preventive maintenance..
It will be nice to be in front for a change thats for sure. hohoho
coil EDIS.JPG
EDIS Coil + amps
coil EDIS.JPG (165.08 KiB) Viewed 6288 times
GC Book # 385

Guy Croft
Site Admin
Posts: 5003
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 9:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK
Contact:

Re: Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by Guy Croft » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:34 pm

Hi Alex

sorry to cut across Paul's thread, but re your kind comment:

"Since you actually know someone who wanted to establish the contact (to no avail?), would you be so kind to provide some more details and I will inform those in charge. Or if the person(s) is/are member(s) of this forum, they could PM me at any time with the details"

Don't worry any about this, it was nothing that would impact on your reputation. I can't remember who they were to be truthful, the calls were along the lines of 'do you know anything about RP Lab?' and I was unable to give the callers any specifics - which I now can.

Thanks,

G

delta303
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: UK greater London.
Contact:

Re: Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by delta303 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:13 pm

Ok adjusted Ignition map , makes more sense. Note reverted to previous settings as where some problems.
ign map adjusted.JPG
Adjusted IGN Map .
ign map adjusted.JPG (146.87 KiB) Viewed 6117 times
Last edited by delta303 on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
GC Book # 385

Alex RP
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Kosovo, Southern Europe
Contact:

Re: Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by Alex RP » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:34 pm

@Guy: Then I am very glad you asked. Thanks.
delta303 wrote:Note: "Integrale 8v kat and 8v integrale ECU , normally Low Ohms injectors” , you can’t use high OHM with out a ECU mod , Please ask RPlab for detailed info regarding this info.
Checked, as per your request. On 10 Oct 2010 our tech rep wrote you:
RP Lab Tech Rep wrote:With 8v kat ECU you can use either low or high ohm injectors.
So, you can choose which injector type you want to use. It is just important to have appropriate battery voltage pulsewidth correction map.

If you achieved +/- 1% short time lambda trim, this is an excellent (above average) result. Well done there!

Re AFR 10.4 at 6000+ RPM - it is way too rich. Is there a particular reason you decided to go that rich? I am not a big fan of cooling components with excessive fueling. Can you monitor exhaust gas temperature? If yes, maybe you can increase AFR to 11 - 11.5, and observe temps closely. We also measure in cylinder pressures, but this kind of equipment is usually not available for a DIY project, so get the best you can from the exh. temp.

Did you measure backpressure of the exhaust system? You can temporarily remove lambda sensor and make use a M18x1.5 adapter to attach manometer (details described in GC's first book). Exhaust backpressure is a big enemy of turbocharged engines. As a side effect, it can even lead to lambda sensor readings falsification, unless the sensor is pressure compensated, which is not the case for non-professional equipment.

That EDIS ignition coil looks great. Can you also post a shot of the complete engine bay?

Regards,
Alex
A. Petri
rp-lab.com

delta303
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: UK greater London.
Contact:

Re: Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by delta303 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:37 pm

Thanks Alex , GC , RPL all .

Heres a few more photos ,

Not optimised settings .
Any advice would be helpful..

In no particular order :

Setup.
setup.JPG
Setup
setup.JPG (65.12 KiB) Viewed 6088 times
Closed loop.
closed loop.JPG
Closed loop
closed loop.JPG (112.63 KiB) Viewed 6088 times
Extras.
Note closed loop lambda now set to 2900RPM to avoid fuelling control adding injector pulse width on boost..
extras.JPG
Extras
extras.JPG (87.91 KiB) Viewed 6088 times
Mod1.
mod1.JPG
MOD1
mod1.JPG (147.43 KiB) Viewed 6088 times
Mod2 + phase.
mod2 phase.jpg
Mod2 + phase.
mod2 phase.jpg (150.78 KiB) Viewed 6088 times
Misc.
misc.JPG
Misc.
misc.JPG (156.24 KiB) Viewed 6088 times
Log adjusted to view higher RPM descending , average AFRs @ approx. 0.9 bar.. I need to adjust boost a small amount ,
perhaps with a better valve or air injectors..
Map ajusted to RPM high.jpg
Log adjusted to view higher RPM descending , average AFRs @ approx. 1 bar..
Map ajusted to RPM high.jpg (513.5 KiB) Viewed 6088 times
Bay.
Engine bay.JPG
Engine bay while fitting the coil pack .
Engine bay.JPG (434.93 KiB) Viewed 6088 times
GC Book # 385

delta303
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:49 pm
Location: UK greater London.
Contact:

Re: Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by delta303 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:56 am

Has been a while since had time to update here , some problems well on there way to being solved .

The invisible enemy.

RFI , EMI issues with ECU and PC logger created crashes and faint misfires,
plus more than likely rev counter issues , drops to 0 on load..

Fitting ferrite rings Clamps / Beads : To fuel pump , PC USB , Coil red input , Aux in outs on ECU intelligently / randomly has reduced problems, Hunch.
Waiting on RFi meter to detect noise and eliminate problem. Uprated Coil and fuel pump , HT leads / plugs could also be.

Note:
Having no FM / AM / MW radio in the car for the last 4 years may have impeded in finding out this problem sooner and with some evidence.
Something worth noting , AM RFI if detected may be away from the source interference due to AM waves being typically longer.
And Higher frequency noise mostly found direct at component. Once RFi meter gauge arrives I hope to put this one to bed.

Alternator wiring for stock setup of Lancia delta integrale.
Q: are ferrite clamp/s included in the alternator circuit? Guy?

Alex :-

Any ideas why I only see 5% duty to Overboost valve during Wide Open Throttle? Scratching my head for 6 months or so , any ideas?
set points are set for 2195millibar and 2250 high set point . The valve engages to pulse , and then falls back sharply to 5% for WOT duration.
The valve is working just fine otherwise. This new log viewer software tells the story opposed to using MS Excel rather well.

Setup:
Come 6000 RPM boost is dropping off to around 1885 millibar with Overboost by passed : not pictured.
Base boost is set at Rod around 1985 millibar. So 5% = around +50millibar while solenoid effective, Pictured.
Just as I’m about to smile the fun stops .

If Duty / RPM/TPS set lower to around 45duty : The problem is the same and boost 20millbar lower overall.
RPM TPS Duty pictured around 75.

Are the modifiers set to large or small for corrections , or some other setting Iv missed in the control settings?

Thanks in advance if you can help me with this ,

Paul.
boost valve off2.jpg
RP labs log : Viewed via Megalog Viewer Mac OSX
boost valve off2.jpg (320.29 KiB) Viewed 5930 times
As you can see the boost drop , or lack of effective over boost control is effecting the burn top most green trace .
AUX1 =AFR Air Fuel Ratio - 11:8 on 2100millibar peak boost 2.9 − 3.4k RPM range..
Then running somewhat richer - especially towards 4500RPM to 6k as boost drops off AFR increases to 10:3 as expected..
Effective over boost control , hopefully soon .
GC Book # 385

WhizzMan
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:05 pm
Location: Amsterdam, the Netherlands

Re: Lancia Delta Integrale 8v kat RpLab ignition map

Post by WhizzMan » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:33 am

If you suffer from what may be RFI, I would suggest you also inspect your wiring for ground loops. If you do not choose your ground points carefully, you may be creating loops that will induce noise on sensor leads. A full explanation on what ground loops are is probably a bit too much to put here, but there are excellent articles about it and how to fix them to be found on the Internet. It just may be that your problems are (partly) caused by these as well.
Book #348

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest