Historic Forest Stage Rally 124 Spider

Non-engine, eg: aerodynamics, gearboxes, brakes, suspension
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Guy Croft
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Posts: 5027
Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Lincoln, UK

Re: Historic Forest Stage Rally 124 Spider

Post by Guy Croft » Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:08 am

engines designed by committee without the cohesion of a strong Chief Designer, nothing new there..

Guy Croft, owner

Posts: 570
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:50 pm
Location: Dumfries, Scotland

Re: Historic Forest Stage Rally 124 Spider

Post by Will01 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:55 am

I know exactly what you mean :(

Posts: 87
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 3:40 pm

Re: Historic Forest Stage Rally 124 Spider

Post by Rallyroller » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:14 pm

Hi all

Work on the rally car is progressing. I finally finished piping in the brakes and have now put fluid in them and bled them. As it was the first time I had made my own flexible hoses so was a bit concerned if I had made them correctly. I did the front brakes first and the first pipe I looked at leaked. I remade the connection (could not see why it leaked) and the pipe sealed.
I had concerns over the rear brakes as there are far more flexibles in the system. However there were no further leaks from the remaining pipes, and everything was ok. The use of bleed valves on the front and rear system just after the master cylinders worked unacceptable I hoped. It means when you bleed the rear brakes, you open the front bleed valve and put a pipe onto a jar. This then allows both master cylinders to move at the same time when the brake pedal is pressed.
The hand brake system (hydraulic with cable back up works well. All will depend how it feels when the car is on the road.
I finally got the radiator in. A few issues as it appears a CS US spec shell has different radiator positioning than a European BS shell. Also I thought that the lower mount, although now strengthened, seemed a bit small. I removed it and made an aluminium bracket that supports the radiator along a much larger area. Hopefully this will ensure the nice alloy radiator will survive the battering of forest stages.
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The existing 4-2-1 manifold has been fitted but a new 2-1 section was manufactured by a local exhaust company as the old one had been damaged on the stages. The manifold has been wrapped, but will also require some shielding as the brake master cylinder is very close to the manifold.
Next is to get the wiring sorted so that I can get the engine fired up. While on about electrics- anybody know of a suitable front indicator lamp ( like on the works rally cars-) the oblong type. Any idea what they were off or a more available (modern) alternative?

Posts: 87
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 3:40 pm

Re: Historic Forest Stage Rally 124 Spider

Post by Rallyroller » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:42 pm

Well Guys, it has been some time since my last update. Employment has got in the way of working on the car, but some progress has been made.
Back in Sept 2011 I posted a picture of the wiring saying “will it ever work? ” The answer was no. I have now had 2 attempts at it and finally getting things working- If I was starting again, I would make a complete new loom from scratch- far easier.
Anyway- the wiring is now nearly complete. Have connected and checked things as I have gone along, and wanted to get all the wiring complete before starting on the engine start up.
I have added a couple of things- the rad fan can be turned on by the radiator switch, or manually over ride switch. The override switch is ignition powered, the rad switch permanent live. L.e.d’s indicate when fan is on or fan is in override. There is a momentary push button that cuts the fan out if pressed (for going through water).
The auxiliary lights are wired via a switch that allows them to be switched off with the main beams – or left on without head lamps. All main lights are cut when starter button is pressed.
The front indicator lights were sourced from a 126. A bit of fiddling and mounting screws altered and they fit ok. The rear bulb location has been waterproofed.
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front 1.jpg
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The auxiliary 7” lamps are actually clear headlamps- I am using 100W H4 bulbs – on main beam only. If I go for night stages, then they will be replaced.
Just making up the grills for the front, and then have to make hinges for the bonnet. As per the ST- I will have hinges, but make them so they can easily be removed- to totally remove the bonnet.
Wiring is in for bonnet spots- but I have not fitted them yet (or may not).
The main cut out switch was positioned between the seats and the cable will connect to this to the front scuttle where the external pull handle will be.
The main battery cable goes onto a bulkhead fitting. This means that there is a main connection point in the engine compartment for jump leads if required. The connection in the engine compartment is protected.

Finally got the old 1608 engine in place (partial strip down, new seals, gaskets belts, oil pump check etc.) . The bearings and rings were perfect, so it was bolted back up. As stated – this will only be used to get the car on the road. I wont use it in competition.
All of the wiring and piping in the engine compartment is in (except for oil catch tank and rad overflow bottle.) It all now needs fastening in place. I tested the fuel system piping with water (plus additives) just in case there were any leaks. All sealed perfectly. ( you can bet if I just put fuel in it would have leaked like a sieve!) . All filters were then replaced.
Just awaiting new oil pressure and temp gauges.
engine 1.jpg
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Engine off side
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Engine near side
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Question- using remote filter. ( as seen in pictures) where do I take the oil temp and oil pressure from? Standard is oil pressure gauge sender is on top of engine filter take off ( next to oil pressure switch.) Can this remain or is at the remote filter better? Where is the best place for the temperature? I know it is on the return, but is it better at the filter take off or should I put an extra connection and add it into the pipe run ? Only down side- more joints.

The interior is coming together- but as usual- one step forward – 2 steps back.
interior 2.jpg
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I had located the drivers seat some time ago. ( fortunately with only 2 bolts holding it down. ) We then decided to put the co drivers seat in. Not an issue. Then we tried it with helmets on.
A couple few issues- head touching roof- and head touching side roll bar!. ( well I mean head with helmet on. ) Also what do you do with the helmets and Hans device between stages? There is not a lot of room in a Spider!. With high back seats with side wings- there is just enough gap to get a helmet between the 2 seats into the back of the car. The helmet box wont fit- so I think we will have to use a net. Not sure about the Hans devices- we will wait and see.
Having now looked again at the seat position we now seem to be a little better, although with the required padding on the roll bar- my head is close to touching. With the seat adjusted to its lowest possible setting, there is around 20mm gap to the roof. I am hoping to get another 10 mm or so when the gaskets are fitted to the edges of the hard top. Only other options are to modify the floor cross member under the seat, so the seat can go lower. This would work- but my view out would be more restricted. The other option is a put a “bump” in the roof. Used in racing in the past- and relatively easy with fibreglass. We will wait and see how it goes. Co drivers side is a little easier as his seat can be at a slightly different angle, to give more head room. If not- get a shorter co driver. ( only kidding!)
Next job is exhaust ignition and then fire her up. Windscreen scuttle is now being assembled, with consideration of extinguisher and cut out positioning. Also, the scuttle/bonnet fastening is being looked at. (I remember the pictures of that 124 Spider crash).
As normal with these projects- what seems like a good idea at the beginning turns out to be a problem. In the picture of the dash- there is a 52mm hole in the centre part of the dash. This was for a volt meter. Good idea- except- it is right in line with the ducting for the demisters, so a normal depth gauge will not fit. I have sourced a led gauge- very thin and will fit into the space without a problem.
As the car comes together I can see light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully it will come to completion soon.

Spider 1969
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:21 pm

Re: Historic Forest Stage Rally 124 Spider

Post by Spider 1969 » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:18 pm

All well thought through Nigel, looks the business!
As for oil pressure take off location I would take the standard position as this is as close to the engine bearings as you can get. For oil temperature take there are in line adaptors available, see photo below. Also I would advise to use good quality mechanical gauges as the electronic ones are not reliable. There are some post about this subject on this forum. Adaptor and top quality gauges can be supplied by Guy.

Kind regards,

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