Race Engine Forum UK

I'm building up my knowledge of what comp Fiat cars likes.

I've recently talked to the PO of my 124 and another racer about what oils they use.

So far I'm considering running 20W-50 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Race Oil because I feed my other car (2L Triumph GT6) and this would simplifies things.
I will have to do further reading about what the diff and trans like.

Here is what I collected from my friends. Your recommendations please.

Andre
Engine: 20W-50 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Race Oil or Redline
Oil Filter:
Transmission:
Differential:
Steering box:
Idler:
Brake fluid: DOT 3 since PO indicated he used it.
coolant: Red Line Water Wetter.

James Scurria 124 driver from the US.
Engine: 10W-40 / 20W-50 Mobile 1 full synthethic (break-in on 20W- 50 Castrol GTX conventional)
10W-40 in cool weather, below 60 degrees, and 20W-50 in warm weather.
Trans: Red Line MTL or Red Line MT90. I use MTL.
Differential: 75W-90 gear oil Mobile 1 systhethic
Steering box: 80W-90 gear oil - conventional (synthetic will leak like a sieve)
Idler: 10W-30 conventional oil
Brake fluid: any quality synthetic
coolant: Red Line water wetter.

Mark (PO of my 124 Spider)
Engine 10w 40 regular engine oil no synthetic
Trans, mixture of 90w and ATF about 80/20 Fiat spec out GL5 I believe.
Rear 90w Gear oil
Dot 3 Brake fluid.
Lite mixture of Antifreeze in the block, but change to water and Water
wetter before racing. I put antifreeze for storage only.

thank you.

A.

This is what I use in my 124 race car

Engine: 20W-50 Valvoline VR1Race Oil
Oil Filter: B/A for a Dodge Neon, due to the spin on cooler adapter
Transmission: Castro Synco mesh trans fluid
Differential: 75w-140, or
Steering box: Std
Idler: ?
Brake fluid: ATE supper Blue
coolant: Red Line Water Wetter. with straight water,

Ted

Novel thread, very interesting!

GC

At least I'm in the right track for the oil.

What I like about not going with a synthetic oil is in the winter for storage I can use a normal 20W-50.

I'm going to change the fluids shortly not sure how long the PO had gone between changes.

A.

Very nice thread!

Is it possible that you could comment on the Water Wetter selection for cooling?

Thanks
Kostas
Greece

Water wetter lowers the boiling point of the coolant or water.

For storage I will run coolant and for the races I'll use water wetter and water.

Questions, distilled or tap water?

I picked up a HP16 oil filter. Will run a K&N HP-2004 for racing.

Next up is the plugs. Car is currently using some NGK BP6ES plugs.
According to the PO the engine is a 9.8:1, with mild race cams, header and exhaust. Single weber carb. (Dual in the spring)
Suggestions on the plugs please.

Thanks.

A.

Hi Andre.

I used Castrol GTX High Mileage 15W-40 in the break in period.

Later I switched to Castrol Edge Sport 10-W-60 and was extremely happy with it. ( Note I was racing in hot weather and my 131 has a tendency to run hot. I was extremely , extremely happy with it !

Now I have switched to MOTUL 300V COMPETITION 100% SYNTHESE DOUBLE ESTER BASED 15 w 50 and I am quite happy though I believe I should heave switched to MOTUL 300V LE MANS 100% SYNTHESE DOUBLE ESTER BASED 20 w 60, because of better heat resistance of the Le Mans )

For gear box I am using :

MOTUL GEARBOX (MOS2) MINERAL 80W-90 – ( absolutely excellent[ with molybdenum additive the shifting is as smooth as I have ever encountered in any car -even at low temperatures).

For Diff
MOTUL 90 PA Mineral – nothing better in my diff yet !

The brake fluid : CASTROL SRF RACING BRAKE FLUID ( incredibly good for racing )

AS fr as the coolant it is the Fiat Paraflu

I can recommend all of them without reservation. Thought I ws proabably happiest with

- Castrol GTX High Mileage 15W-40. GTX High Mileage for engine

- MOTUL GEARBOX (MOS2) MINERAL 80W-90 for gear box

- MOTUL 90 PA Mineral – for the diff

and

CASTROL SRF RACING BRAKE FLUID for the brakes .

Jury is still out on the Motul Le Mans as I have not tried it yet.

Miro

PS: I want to see what Guy will recommend for the engine he has just about finished building for me ....

I want to point out that you have to be very careful what you add to Fiat engine cooling systems (this is true of all models) and the only fluid I would add is Fiat Paraflu. If the manufacturer says use 'fluid type X' - use it and if you deviate fromtheir advice - don't be surprised if you encounter problems over a protracted period.

I have seen (over and over) extensive corrosion and fouling (formation of deposits blocking galleries) on heads and cooling systems on these engines with other types. This excellent product 'Paraflu' will keep the whole system in absolutely pristine condition for decades - if routinely changed in accordance with OE instructions.

Achieving a lower boiling point (although it is perfectly true that most additives do this, some as much as 15 deg) is completely secondary to preventing corrosion and fouling and the prevention of a little-known phenomenon called nucleate boiling which occurs in engines when the coolant does not fully wet-up on the metal surface (impairing heat transfer). Lowering the boiling point is immaterial because if your engine is operating anywhere near 100 deg C it's way too hot anyway to be safe and for best power. 75 deg C is the absolute safe & OPTIMUM engine temperature under all conditions and far too few owners strive to achieve it, expecting the engine to perform miracles of power and reliability regardless. What temperature OE mfr set for their road engines is, as far as we are concerned on this site, irrelevant.

GC

Engine Oil - Selenia Racing 10w-60
Gear box oil - Mobilube 1 SHC 75W-90 fully synthetic, supreme performance commercial gear oil - As recommended by Bacci Romano
Power Steering - Tutela ATF fluid
Coolant - FL Paraflu
Fuel - Pump 97 RON

Notes:
Mocal 19 row 225 matrix, no oilstat, runs Max 100 Degrees, think automotive reccommended Oil-Water Cooler
Fiat Spin On oil filter on Mocal RFH
Mocal Temp strip on Gearbox showed Max 85 Degrees
Standard but new copper Radiator, with thermostat bypass drilled in - runs 85 degrees at race speeds

Rich

Hullo doctor!

runs 85 degrees at race speeds

shurely 'used to run 85 deg at race speeds?'

Ed

Hi everyone. These are what I use on my integrale.

Engine: Valvoline 20W-50 VR1. Due to the zinc content in this oil I feel it's much safer and kinder on the camshafts.
Oil Filter: K&N
Transmission: Omega
Differential: Omega with Mobil 1 limited slip additive added
Steering box: standard
Idler: standard
Brake fluid: Castrol DOT4
coolant: Redline water wetter
spark plugs: NGK BP7ES

I too like the VR1 oil.

#1 its conventional. Therefore 1/2 the cost of the synthetics and maybe a buck or two more over normal oil.
#2 I use it in both my race car and street car. So I just keep a case or two on hand.

A.

Zinc may be good for camshafts, but if the base oil isn't very good at lubricating, you will still get a lot of wear. Conventional oils tend to be worse due to the relative large amount of "fractions" that aren't contributing to the lubrication. I once saw a comparison made by someone that said that basically, if you put a few candles in diesel oil and mash it up, you'll get something comparable to mineral oil. Of course, that is exaggerating things, but (semi) synthetic oils have better base fractions in them and will have less shear and wear by themselves. If you want zinc in your oil, you may be able to find an after market additive to add to a (semi) synthetic oil?

Interesting reading, after having run a bearing in my integrale I'm very interested in oils and making sure I put the best in it once I've finished the rebuild. I'll be following this thread closely. But I do know there are a lot of varied opinions on what the best oil is.

Hello
I see that many of use Water Wetter. I have to stress, from personnal experience, that it is corrosive to iron blocks when used with water only (and/or very low antifreeze liquid percentage, eg 10-20%) and should not be used when a car is stationary for a long time.
I would definetaly drain all cooling system if it contained Water Wetter or something similar if my car was to be parked for more that 2-3 months.
My car has a Peugeot TU 1.6 8V engine.