Page 3 of 3

Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:15 pm
by Guy Croft
remind me when you are ready to start


Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:25 pm
by Piotrek125p
I am waiting for waffle. I think it will be shipped in monday.
Please give me advice how to port it for maximum flow with 44's.
Carbs will be a new Webcon. Tommorow I will post here my settings for stage II fast road/clubman 2L TC. Of corse these settings are made according to your 2010 "red book" not my experierce so your comment are really needed for me.
So I am ready to start dear GC.

Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:05 pm
by Guy Croft
write again when your manifold arrives Peter..


Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:24 am
by Piotrek125p
OK, I will do it.

In meantime, GC, could you give your comment about this IDF 44's settings ?

Webcon 44 IDF with 36 chockes

Main jet 145

Emulsion tube F9

Air corrector 180

Idle jet 50

Pump jet 45

Needle valve 175

It is will be works correctly with sealed ducted air intake system in road car ? I know that IDF has some progression problems, do you have a solution for this problem ?

Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:35 pm
by Guy Croft
all good!

Fuel pressure 3.5 - 4psi MAX psi at the carb with engine OFF

make sure the float level is set right.


Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:00 pm
by Piotrek125p
Float level as your first book ? The distance between the point on the top of the float furthest away from the cover (without gasket) should be 10mm ? In the fully open position, this should be 32.5 ? Or something else ?

Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:26 pm
by Guy Croft
1995 book is correct, yes


Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:58 pm
by Piotrek125p

At last I have my own "wafle" manifold.

I done some measurements and ports in this manifold are quite small eg. about 40mm on carb section and about 32-33mm on a head section.

Could you advice me how to port it for maximum flow in my stage II engine ? On a carb side I want to bore to 44mm, on a head side I want to bore to 36mm and match it with head. I don't know what I have to do on a head-radius section. It should be constant diameter 36mm from head side to radius or it should be expand from head side to the radius something like in your glamorous M131 manifold ?

Radius of corse I will make as bigger as I can, I think it is a good choice.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:30 pm
by Guy Croft
shall try to reply this weekend Peter


Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:09 am
by Piotrek125p
OK, no problem, for your detailed reply I can wait much more ;-)

Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:58 pm
by Piotrek125p
GC, I just remind you with this photos about my question ;-)
IMG_20170807_161304910.jpg (67.83 KiB) Viewed 2141 times
IMG_20170807_161255709.jpg (70.25 KiB) Viewed 2141 times
IMG_20170807_160939790.jpg (98.29 KiB) Viewed 2141 times
IMG_20170807_160955096.jpg (86.99 KiB) Viewed 2141 times
I done some basic measurements and I am pleased. This manifold is unmodified part, made for 40 so I have a plenty material for modifications.

Tomorrow I will check a thickness of this manifold because today I forgot to do it. It could get me an answer about head-radius section. I think that good idea is to get tapering port, but I think it depends of the casing thickness. GC, what do you think about tapering port in waffle manifold ?


Today I made some thickness measurements, see attached photos.
IMG_20170808_160824186.jpg (50.81 KiB) Viewed 2087 times
IMG_20170808_160905931.jpg (43.29 KiB) Viewed 2087 times
IMG_20170808_160924713.jpg (37.99 KiB) Viewed 2087 times
IMG_20170808_160933372.jpg (48.1 KiB) Viewed 2087 times
It looks that I have to do a 36mm runner from radius to head and this should be done with a lot of attention. I think that 4mm thick casing is minimum, an OE waffle manifold has 5mm thickness on the bottom so I have to remove material on the top of runner.

But everything will be clear for me if GC leave here his detailed reply.
20170808_164621.jpg (20.08 KiB) Viewed 2086 times
Of corse 1/8 NPT stainless steel plugs are waiting for cooling port block operation.

Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:45 pm
by Piotrek125p
GC, any chance for your reply ?


So I showed here I bought a nice waffle manifold, unmodified in excellent condition.

After my measurements I want to open it to 44 on a carb side and to 36 on a head side. Especially on a head side I should do it very carefully, this is not a lot of material for do it.

GC, if you have some tips and photos how to do it "GC style" please share it with us.

In meantime I read much about IDF in street engine and some of folks write about problems with progression phase with IDF.

I know that 130TC manifold with DCOE fits quite good in tidy 125p engine bay.

GC, could you advise me which type of intake system will be better for my engine ?

-opened waffle manifold with 44 IDF
-130TC opened manifold with adapter for DCOE 45 ?

For remind I will my engine spec. and results that I want to get for this engine.

Tractable engine with stock 131/132 big type gearbox for road and clubman use.

-170-175bhp @ 6800-7000rpm
-147-150lbf ft

My spec :

-84.40mm bore
-about 10,2 - 10,5 CR
-0.05 bore-piston clearance
-intake port 36-35mm with 4mm SSR, everything by GC advise
-exhaust port ported like GC red book (33mm width, 1.5m. reduce from guide base)
-43.50 intake valve with 30 degree top cut
-36.00 exhaust valve, sodium cooled from Lancia Turbo without top cut
-30-45-70 degree on the seats, seats made from Trojan
-GC triple valve springs
-GC IIIA intake cam, IIB exhaust cam, timed 106/108
-exhaust header, 4-1, 38mm inside diameter, 33-36 lenght, it will check on dyno and I will choose the best lenght or 4-2-1 GC spec (please advice)
-130TC flywheel with Helix Organic Clutch

I will be very glad if you will advice my which type of intake system will be better in my road engine. This is the last thing about a spec of my engine that I want to know. In new topic I will show how I building my Fiat TC engine with GC tips.
130 TC adaptor.JPG
130 TC adaptor.JPG (99.05 KiB) Viewed 1910 times

Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:17 pm
by Piotrek125p
Guy, I know that your time is very limited but I saw that you get some answers for other members.

Please tell me only which type of intake system are better for my street engine:

-130TC opened manifole with 45 DCOE

-waffle manifold opened for 44 IDF

About opening these type of manifolds I think I know everything I want.

Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:36 pm
by Guy Croft

there isn't really much difference betw 45 DCOE and 44 IDF to be honest - not in the level of tune you are considering anyway. It's easier to keep DCOE 'in tune' than IDF. IDF idle jets wander and are not as accurate as DCOE ones in my experience. And the Webcon throttle linkage for DCOE is really superb.

Very sincerely,


Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:20 pm
by Piotrek125p
Maany thanks for this reply dear GC.

This is a last "theoretical" post about my engine. Next will be show how I making my engine according to your advices.