My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Question and answer direct with GC. Competition engines and 'live' projects only. Good photos to illustrate your post are expected.
Piotrek125p
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Piotrek125p » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:45 pm

Guy Croft wrote:spec is good, should easily meet your bhp/torque targets..

pay attention to:

1. Fuel octane - with (2) below you will need 97 or 98 Oct RON
2. Sealed ducted air intake, without this your engine WILL detonate and destroy your head gasket and pistons.
3. Ex system, you have not remarked on this - I know what to do and why..
4. Engine temp - 75 deg C max
5. Oil temp - 85 deg C max
6. Instruments - you need everything, TC engines are grenades... handle with EXTREME care ..
7. Fuel pressure - pump goes down (2) applies... mad pressure at carbs with engine off 4psi

etc etc etc etc....

it is a long list, Christ I should run a fcuking academy about all this stuff..

GC
1.I will be use a Shell V-power Racing fuel.
2.Of corse I will use a sealed ducter air intake, I wrote about it.
3.I wrote about header (4-1, 33-36" lenght with one AX891 muffler, 2" ID of exhaust pipe), I think that's enough information about my ex system.
4.I will use Your in-head thermostat and fit it according to Your "How to..." from 2010 book and modify a coolant passages.
5.16 row Mocal cooler with 130TC oil filter housing, is it a good choice for oil filter housing ?
6.Could You tell me or 0,06mm bore-skirt clearance for AE 1585 pistons will be good ?

Academy is good idea, here in Poland is extremaly hard to get a good solutions for minor problems with TC, not to mention things that are subject of this thread.

GC, could You attach here a dyno chart of engine with the same or simillar spec that mine ?
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Piotrek125p
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Piotrek125p » Fri May 13, 2016 8:14 pm

GC, is the 130TC oil housing is a good choice for my car/engine setup ? I can buy one, but I don't know which solution is better, a 130TC oil housing or Beta housing + sandwich plate.
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Guy Croft
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Guy Croft » Sat May 14, 2016 5:47 pm

makes no difference Piotr,

they just stick out in different ways..

one as good as the other but if you want a neat engine bay use a GC take off and remote filter..



G
Attachments
AP 124_TOP (3).JPG
AP 124_TOP (3).JPG (118.82 KiB) Viewed 1718 times

Piotrek125p
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Piotrek125p » Sun May 15, 2016 12:55 pm

Yes, I know that GC take off plate is the best way, but I have a Beta and 130TC mountings and I thought that one of them will be fully sufficient in my engine. I saw in your first book that you used 130TC mounting in STII engine and I thought that it will be enough with 16 row Mocal.

By the way, I have some problems with making a 2.75" lenght intake manifold for DCOE's.
GC, could you advise my, according to your experience, which way will be better for my engine/car ?

1.waffle manifold opened for IDF 44

2.shorter manifold for twin DCOE 45 ? If I can make it shorter, which lenght is minimum for DCOE 45 mounted in STII 2L TC ? I warn in advance that M131 doesn't fit because it not given me enough space for air filter.
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Guy Croft » Mon May 16, 2016 1:20 pm

nothing wrong with IDF, use them

G

Graham Stewart
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Graham Stewart » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:02 pm

Guy, my apologies for taking this topic slightly off-tangent, but do you have any opinions on the various ceramic coatings that are available? Are they as good as, better or worse than exhaust wrap in terms of reducing under-bonnet temperatures? I was thinking of Camcoat's 'Racespec' internal and external ceramic exhaust coating, but I am sure there are others. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Piotrek125p
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Piotrek125p » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:39 pm

Graham, good post, I am too interested in ceramic coatings, thanks.
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Guy Croft
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Guy Croft » Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:46 pm

Barrier coatings - done right (ie don't flake off) definitely good idea.

1. Gas and pressure-wave speed is higher than non-coated.
2. Underhood temp is lower than non-coated, reducing heat transfer to all the engine bay parts and inlet manifold (too much heat in the latter is the last thing you want - it reduces inlet charge density and thus power and can cause detonation)

Effect on longevity of the pipes? Well nothing lasts forever at exhaust gas temperatures - but coating is way better than heat wrap materials.

As to whether it is worth doing on your manifold? Well much depends on whether the layout of the thing makes it worth having in the first place. This has a relationship with point (1) above. If your manifold (header as it's called in the USA) has primary pipes too short - coating will aggravate a tendency to knock your engine to pieces due to exhaust gas temperature 'spikes' in cylinders linked one to another. Excessive temps burn out valves and seats and wreck rings and can make - for example - a 'mapped' fuel-injected engine quite impossible to calibrate properly - even if the person doing the mapping thinks it's ok...

Some good questions here and so if in doubt post photos and consult me.

GC
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Graham Stewart
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Graham Stewart » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:55 am

Many thanks for your full and very helpful reply, Guy. I ask because I have had positive experience with these coatings on motorcycles. On a V-twin bike I own, the rear exhaust pipe passes perilously close to the rear suspension unit hydraulic preload adjuster and the heat caused seals to fail one more than one occasion. After having the header ceramic coated no further failures have been experienced.

Piotrek125p
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Piotrek125p » Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:49 pm

I think that a 33-36" lenght of my 4-1 header are long enough and I can use a ceramic coating without problem.

Thanks GC for this advice, I wanted to use a thermal bandage, but according to your advices I think that ceramic coating is far better in my tidy engine bay.
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Piotrek125p
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Piotrek125p » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:16 pm

GC, could you please give me your carbs setting advice for my setup ? For DCOE 45 of corse.
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Guy Croft
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Guy Croft » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:33 pm

38 or 40 choke depending whether you want lower-end torque or top-end power (45 DCOE come with 36mm but they can be bored & reshaped out on a lathe)

F16 emulsion tube (std on new 45 DCOE)

145 mains

180 air correctors

rest of the jets - you can leave as supplied new. If you are not using new go:

50 F9 idle
45 pump
175 needle valve

fuel pressure at carbs engine off should be set at 3.5-4 psi

GC
Guy Croft, owner

Piotrek125p
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Piotrek125p » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:47 pm

I will go to 38 chokes, I am building a street engine so a torque on a lower RPM's are really necessary, if I get a ~170bhp and 200Nm I will be very pleased.

GC, do you make some mods on a DCOE's to get a more flow (of corse except a choke size changing) ?

About your spec, many thanks for it, this is all what I need.
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Guy Croft
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Guy Croft » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:15 pm

No Piotr

I have enough trouble finding clients to pay for essential things..

G
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Piotrek125p
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Re: My Fiat 2L TC engine spec

Post by Piotrek125p » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:16 pm

Today I checked how much space I will have if I use a M131 manifold with DCOE.

I made a dummy engine with head and manifold with DCOE.
Dummy TC engine.jpg
Dummy TC engine.jpg (55.96 KiB) Viewed 290 times
Next, I fitted it to my 125p
125p engine bay with M131.jpg
125p engine bay with M131.jpg (66.97 KiB) Viewed 290 times
Unfortunely I will have not space for sealed cold air intake system
DCOE in 125p.jpg
DCOE in 125p.jpg (101.14 KiB) Viewed 290 times
This is a really bad info for my. I checked, as quality engineer, a GC M131 manifold and I was pleased. The quality of this part is really good, it fits like a glove for TC head.

Unfortunely, I will have to use an IDF 44 carbs with "waffle" type manifold.

GC, could you give me some tips about opening "waffle" manifold for 44's ? In stock, it was made for 40's, not for 44's.

Also, could you share me your advices about IDF 44 settings for my 2L TC spec ?

Thank you in advance for your reply.
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