High capacity water pump

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tmvolumex
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High capacity water pump

Post by tmvolumex »

Guy,
I see in the the topic titled; "GCRE toothed belt waterpump/alternator drive" in the virtual work shop you mention a high capacity water pump.
Does this water pump have a deeper impeller, like a VX water pump? Also I did not see it listed on your price list.
Tom
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Guy Croft
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Re: High capacity water pump

Post by Guy Croft »

Deeper than the 1600 yes and same as the VX, however I only stock the Fiat pumps - if you want a Lancia one you'll have to go to the Monte Hospital - MC one is the same large impeller. I always refer Lancia to him.

FWIW - plenty big enough for the 2 liter 8v or 16v in any spec..

G
tmvolumex
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Re: High capacity water pump for Fiat TC

Post by tmvolumex »

Guy,
Great, I need one for my Fiat 131. I will send you a PM to order one.
Tom
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manoa matt
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Re: High capacity water pump

Post by manoa matt »

Deeper impeller? I've seen several Fiat blocks where the water pump impeller has actually made contact with the #1 cylinder wall. The clearance is very close, actually the mounting holes for the pump are quite large in relation to the mounting bolt diameter...so the pump can move around quite a bit until its finally bolted down tight. If its slid to the intake side, the impeller will contact the #1 cylinder wall, so my procedure is to slide it to the exhaust side immediately prior to the final tightening.

Guy, Regarding water pumps: I know of two different impeller designs. The OE version with a "closed" impeller made of cast iron, and the "open" type impeller made of stamped steel. Its been regarded, the version with the stamped steel impeller (made in Japan) is better machined and provides more flow. However I've also heard that the "open" impeller can cause cavitation of the coolant at certain RPM's The cavitation leading to reduced pump efficiency, and eventually the erosion of the impeller blades. Any thoughts on water pump impeller design and performance?
Guy Croft
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Re: High capacity water pump

Post by Guy Croft »

The Veco pumps I have are bought by me in batches of 10 off and have to be or I can't get them at all and are currently the only one I seem to be able to get without spending weeks trying to find others.

As the photos show they come in variously with round or triangular drive flanges which have the same effective locating diameter and cast iron or bronze impellers - I have no control over what they use.

The setup height of the driving flange varies according to age of engine and the water pump pulley and crank pulley have to be matching sets which is a pain in the neck unless you have every single one around you which I never seem to do and the reason why I finally decided to go to a toothed drive.

The depth from body to impeller inner face is typically 16.35mm or so with 1mm clearance from inner face of impeller to body. There can be clearance issues impeller to block and cooling jacket cyl 1 and you have to check these things. This is a race engine website - I consider that basic an necessary - nothing here is ever just 'bolted on'.

Whether (eg: for Tom McC) this impeller is precisely the same as yours (eg: VX or other) I cannot assure but if you want more dimesional info - holler.

I have never seen cavitation of pump itself using these types even on the 9500rpm NHRA unit but I have certainly seen more than my fair share of corrosion. Sure you get it on the end plate of the block which is why (I think) the Integrale has a stainless inner liner with O ring as a rear gasket and maybe elsewhere but as a powerboat expert I know what degrading cavitation on big pitch props looks like. Sorry but my (sanguine?) view on pump caviation is that for everything that works well there is always someone in the world with a new idea or new problem re that thing ready to 'outfox' us all just when we think we are 'on top of the job'. I want to emphasise this - I have NEVER had a cooling system problem on any engine built by me or with an engine build by a client where I supplied a pump of this type. The output is prodigious frankly.


G
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Fiat TC 8V 2 liter waterpump.JPG
Fiat TC 8V 2 liter waterpump.JPG (138.56 KiB) Viewed 6884 times
Fiat TC 8V 2 liter waterpump (1).JPG
Fiat TC 8V 2 liter waterpump (1).JPG (113.15 KiB) Viewed 6884 times
tmvolumex
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Re: High capacity water pump

Post by tmvolumex »

Guy,
Thanks for the info. I am looking for a high capacity pump for a Fiat 2 liter TC. From your picture it appears that you marked the water pumps in the picture with the measured distance from the mounting face of the pump to the driven face (location of the water pump pulley). Both pumps appear to be marked 100mm. Is this correct?
Tom
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manoa matt
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Re: High capacity water pump

Post by manoa matt »

Guy,

The attached picture illustrates the stamped steel "open" impeller design I was referring to.

Matt
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open impeller H20 pump.JPG
open impeller H20 pump.JPG (129.26 KiB) Viewed 6857 times
Guy Croft
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Re: High capacity water pump

Post by Guy Croft »

Yes Tom, 100mm those pumps are to all intents identical. Last batch bronze latest cast iron.

Matt I have seen those pumps, QH variants tend to have the pressed steel impeller, I have an early 124 one here with a similar design.

G
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