Volumex Rotor Condition

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037_beta
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Joined: October 4th, 2010, 3:31 am

Volumex Rotor Condition

Post by 037_beta »

After going to great lengths to locate a Volumex supercharger I recently purchased one in "good condition" from a reputable individual overseas. Upon it's arrival I noticed that some of the casing bolts were lose, and that there was a small amount of debris on the rotors. The pulleys also had some pry marks on them which I take as a warning sign. Turning the Volumex over I noticed that there are rub marks on both the rotors. Given the limited information on the Volumex units it would be great to know if this is normal or due to incorrect setup which I suspect given the tight tolerances. The unit is also missing the "Volumex" badge which I am again unsure if this is standard/normal. I am quite concerned about this unit especially after reading notes by Guy regarding MG users running these units to destruction.
Looking at a Volumex Rotor
Looking at a Volumex Rotor
IMG_1256_563x422.jpg (23.09 KiB) Viewed 9200 times
Looking at a Volumex Rotor
Looking at a Volumex Rotor
IMG_1257_563x422.jpg (34.03 KiB) Viewed 9200 times
Missing Volumex badge
Missing Volumex badge
IMG_1272_563x422.jpg (30.64 KiB) Viewed 9200 times
Book #188
Guy Croft
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Re: Volumex Rotor Condition

Post by Guy Croft »

Anthony, hi

you are the first to post in GC Q&A since my post re book, thank you very much for citing your book no. One benefit to me is that since we have a complete archive of who bought it I can actually find people's names which I have always prefered to use in place of site names; I often look up in member profiles but few real names are recorded. I trust that the calibre of my reply here will demonstrate my ongoing commitment to GC Q&A (albeit under a slightly tighter regime).

Sounds like some debris has gone thru this unit. The absence of the 'VOLUMEX' plate certainly suggests one of the MG mob has had his hands on it. These rather cussid little units (built by Abarth FWIW) run very tight clearances ( a few thou") rotor-rotor and rotor-casing and the rotors have to turn synchronously. The rotors are also prone to lock up and strip the drive belt teeth or even go 'out of phase' if subjected to backfire - the very thing the OE backfire valve on the inlet manifold is supposed to prevent. I would partially dismantle the blower - by this means you can inspect and dress the interior of the main casing and rotors without taking them out and losing the phasing. Hope the photo sequence tells the story.

The main casing and rotors and the inner faces of the front-rear bearing housings can be dressed using carborundun paper and Scotchbrite. Pay particular attention to the threaded areas of the casing as thread/other debris in there can wreck the rotors. Be careful at the front end of the rotors that you don't get debris trapped between the rotors and front bearing housing. A good wash with brake cleaner and airline follows.

Bear in mind that if you do a full strip you will need a special jig to phase the rotors, avoid this if you can. If the rear grease-lubricated bearings look a bit shabby and the grease too it may be that that they need to be replaced and the seals too which I can supply. I can show you what to do with that lot if need be. The rear seals are exposed to carbon and heat (and fuel) contamination and once they go hard the grease degrades. The front and rear bearing housings should carry little plastic vent pipes which allow vapour from the main casing to vent and not enter the bearing and seal regions but on every rebuild I do the venting holes and pipes are blocked and completely ineffective.

At the front end the bearings are lubricated with EP90 gear oil and seals oriented accordingly, efforts to inspect or replace the 2 seals on the rotor side of the front bearing housing will need full strip, ie: gears off. This is a whole other 'ball game'. The front cover seal (under the toothed pulley) is easy to replace and maybe should be. Minor leakage in the two behind the gears will simply cause modest ingestion of oil into the main casing which you can (I guess) cope with by checking the oil level in the special plastic reservoir. However you certainly don't want oil leaking out of the front seal.

The original build includes a gasket betw the front cover and bearing housing, apart from that the only other gasket used on build is the rear bearing housing cover (the little dished steel plate held on with 4 x M6 nuts). Both of these can be sealed with silicon or your own-made gaskets. No gaskets or sealant should be used on the main casing ends where the bearing housings bolt up.

I recommend that before hard-bolting the assembly you do a partial rebuild and make sure the rotors turn perfectly freely and in phase. M8 torque settings are 14-16lbf ft. The nose pulley torque setting is 88lbf ft.

I assume you do have the plastic vent pipes and the oil reservoir?

Hope this gets you started,

G
Attachments
Nose pulley has to come off. Note GC regime of paint-marking which is a useful way of ID'ing that it's tight & also of determining the security of your own fixings on subsequent strip. Also tells you if the fastener has been, er 'tampered with' by little fingers..
Nose pulley has to come off. Note GC regime of paint-marking which is a useful way of ID'ing that it's tight & also of determining the security of your own fixings on subsequent strip. Also tells you if the fastener has been, er 'tampered with' by little fingers..
VX_partial strip.jpg (111.99 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
even if you succeed in getting the pulley off (using a battery or airpowered nut gun) you will need a sensible method of restraint to do it up again. This is an OE camwheel locking tool.
even if you succeed in getting the pulley off (using a battery or airpowered nut gun) you will need a sensible method of restraint to do it up again. This is an OE camwheel locking tool.
VX_partial strip (1).jpg (110.17 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
Under the pulley nut should be a hardened washer and this little tapered collet. The pulley runs inside the seal and that diameter should be lightly dressed with fine Scotchbrite and cleaned thoroughly - as indeed should the collet and its locating bore in the pulley. 'Stone' the inner face of the pulley - it bears hard against the master drive gear securing nut when tightened up (that face and the gear nut should kept be oil-free during assembly) and you don't want it slipping.
Under the pulley nut should be a hardened washer and this little tapered collet. The pulley runs inside the seal and that diameter should be lightly dressed with fine Scotchbrite and cleaned thoroughly - as indeed should the collet and its locating bore in the pulley. 'Stone' the inner face of the pulley - it bears hard against the master drive gear securing nut when tightened up (that face and the gear nut should kept be oil-free during assembly) and you don't want it slipping.
VX_partial strip (2).jpg (108.03 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
this is the pulley inner face
this is the pulley inner face
VX_partial strip (3).jpg (111.82 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
with the pulley off you can remove the 8 x M8 nuts/washers that retain the front cover with the seal that runs on the pulley. If you can save the OE gasket do so and wet it with 'Wellseal' (a non-hardening sealant) before refittin. Silicone gasket can be used as an alternative but choose an excellent Automotive grade. For joints with gaskets where you have some concern about the integrity of the seal, there is NOTHING better than Wellseal, we used it in F1 on direct metal-metal joints eg: camshaft covers which suprised me at first - but they NEVER leaked.
with the pulley off you can remove the 8 x M8 nuts/washers that retain the front cover with the seal that runs on the pulley. If you can save the OE gasket do so and wet it with 'Wellseal' (a non-hardening sealant) before refittin. Silicone gasket can be used as an alternative but choose an excellent Automotive grade. For joints with gaskets where you have some concern about the integrity of the seal, there is NOTHING better than Wellseal, we used it in F1 on direct metal-metal joints eg: camshaft covers which suprised me at first - but they NEVER leaked.
VX_partial strip (4).jpg (113.11 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
View of gearcase with front cover removed, the idea is NOT to undo the nuts holding the gears as there is no dowel or spline location and the rotors will 'go out of phase' the instant the preload comes off the nuts. You simply cannot reset them without a jig.
View of gearcase with front cover removed, the idea is NOT to undo the nuts holding the gears as there is no dowel or spline location and the rotors will 'go out of phase' the instant the preload comes off the nuts. You simply cannot reset them without a jig.
VX_partial strip (5).jpg (112.28 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
take off the rear bearing cover plate - 4 x M6. This is a grease-filled housing. The screwdriver at left is being used to 'tease' the fragile vent pipe into place with some silicone sealant to lock it in place - after being cleaned with a tiny brush. The main bore of the tube and little 90 deg side pipes on it were previously blocked solid.
take off the rear bearing cover plate - 4 x M6. This is a grease-filled housing. The screwdriver at left is being used to 'tease' the fragile vent pipe into place with some silicone sealant to lock it in place - after being cleaned with a tiny brush. The main bore of the tube and little 90 deg side pipes on it were previously blocked solid.
VX_partial strip (6).jpg (52.41 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
VX_partial strip (7).jpg
VX_partial strip (7).jpg (73.36 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
VX_partial strip (8).jpg
VX_partial strip (8).jpg (61.62 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
The main casing has been slid off the rotors and the internals are now fully accessible for inspection and dressing to get rid of surface damage/scoring etc. Do not worry in the least about upsetting clearances, if you don't clean it up and get it to turn freely you are completely 'stuck' as no spare parts are available at all for these: it's either fix it or - get another and start again. The rotors - in this state, by the way, should turn quite freely in phase, albeit that there will be a bit more 'slop' than if the rear bearing housing was fitted. You can of course offer it up to the rotors (make sure the brg sleeves don't get mixed up - or lost!) without the main casing on and just sit the unit on a flat surface to give rotation a try. When you've overhauled as many of these as I have you soon learn little tricks to fool 'em..
The main casing has been slid off the rotors and the internals are now fully accessible for inspection and dressing to get rid of surface damage/scoring etc. Do not worry in the least about upsetting clearances, if you don't clean it up and get it to turn freely you are completely 'stuck' as no spare parts are available at all for these: it's either fix it or - get another and start again. The rotors - in this state, by the way, should turn quite freely in phase, albeit that there will be a bit more 'slop' than if the rear bearing housing was fitted. You can of course offer it up to the rotors (make sure the brg sleeves don't get mixed up - or lost!) without the main casing on and just sit the unit on a flat surface to give rotation a try. When you've overhauled as many of these as I have you soon learn little tricks to fool 'em..
VX_partial strip (9).jpg (114.73 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
OIL reservoir - note the placement of the container, the position affects the oil level and is IMPORTANT! Just behind it you can see the front gearcase vent pipe. In standard trim this and the rear one are connected to an electric pump (which also acts as one-way valve) that evacuates fuel vapor from the main casing via a thermo switch in the coolant circuit to actuate when motor is a) hot and b) switched off. These rarely work effectively and ..
OIL reservoir - note the placement of the container, the position affects the oil level and is IMPORTANT! Just behind it you can see the front gearcase vent pipe. In standard trim this and the rear one are connected to an electric pump (which also acts as one-way valve) that evacuates fuel vapor from the main casing via a thermo switch in the coolant circuit to actuate when motor is a) hot and b) switched off. These rarely work effectively and ..
VX reservoir.jpg (104.74 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
I recommend use of Weber DCOE pump-jet non-return valves as shown here. You should not allow the pipes to vent to atmosphere without non-return valves fitted.
I recommend use of Weber DCOE pump-jet non-return valves as shown here. You should not allow the pipes to vent to atmosphere without non-return valves fitted.
blower valve.JPG (50.73 KiB) Viewed 9153 times
Guy Croft
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Re: Volumex Rotor Condition

Post by Guy Croft »

retrieved from the site backup, Anthony's missing post

"Thank you Guy for your thorough and considered response. I have followed your instructions and stripped the Volumex down as per your specifications. I am however missing one crucial piece of information. How do I split the casing at the pulley end (where the oil reservoir piping meets the main rotor housing) to remove the rotors from the housing? Are there any nuts or studs I need to remove to split the casing at this end? Unfortunately the Volumex unit is missing the Oil reservoir and piping with the exception of one plastic breather tube. I will contact you via email to discuss the availability of these items and the seal you recommend replacing. Do you feel that the rub marks on the rotors shown in the first sequence of photos are normal for these Volumex superchargers? The rotors are covered in carbon, with the exception of the scored metallic sections that run the length of the rotors. I will work to clean and dress the rotors as you detailed and hope that the wear is not as severe as it looks (contrasted with the carbon)."

Anthony - if you want to kindly repost your photos please do so as a reply to this

GC
Guy Croft
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Re: Volumex Rotor Condition

Post by Guy Croft »

Ah - once you have removed the front seal housing you can actually separate the front bearing housing from the main casing - it might need a bit of persuasion to separate the two - but as you can see below the studs fitted in the main casing go right thru the clearance holes in the front bearing housing. The studs can get corroded and tight. The main point being to get access to the rotors you slide the front bearing housing c/w rotors and gears fitted off the studs and you don't need to undo the gear retaining nuts.

G
Attachments
this is what you get when you finally separate the front bearing housing and main casing, note penknife and dead-blow hammer for persuasion.
this is what you get when you finally separate the front bearing housing and main casing, note penknife and dead-blow hammer for persuasion.
IMG_2124.JPG (117.7 KiB) Viewed 9123 times
037_beta
Posts: 11
Joined: October 4th, 2010, 3:31 am

Re: Volumex Rotor Condition

Post by 037_beta »

Resurrecting the photos of the tear down process.
Makita BTW450 with Volumex pulley removed
Makita BTW450 with Volumex pulley removed
IMG_1277_563x422.jpg (40.33 KiB) Viewed 9057 times
One piece of the case removed. Gasket in good condition.
One piece of the case removed. Gasket in good condition.
IMG_1364_563x422.jpg (31.45 KiB) Viewed 9057 times
Seal in good condition.
Seal in good condition.
IMG_1342_563x422.jpg (29.7 KiB) Viewed 9057 times
Bearings in good order. Look to have been replaced in recent years.
Bearings in good order. Look to have been replaced in recent years.
IMG_1380_563x422.jpg (40.44 KiB) Viewed 9057 times
Debris in rotor.
Debris in rotor.
IMG_1397_563x422.jpg (30.77 KiB) Viewed 9057 times
Case split per the recommendation from Guy. Feeler gauges used to split the casing from the studs.
Case split per the recommendation from Guy. Feeler gauges used to split the casing from the studs.
IMG_1427_563x422.jpg (35.06 KiB) Viewed 9057 times
Radial rub or machine markings in rotor housing.
Radial rub or machine markings in rotor housing.
IMG_1448_563x422.jpg (27.86 KiB) Viewed 9057 times
Dirty carbonized rotors.
Dirty carbonized rotors.
IMG_1458_563x422.jpg (38.45 KiB) Viewed 9057 times
Book #188
037_beta
Posts: 11
Joined: October 4th, 2010, 3:31 am

Re: Volumex Rotor Condition

Post by 037_beta »

Photos after approximately 5 hours of cleaning by hand with scotchbrite and brake cleaner.
Volumex cleaned.
Volumex cleaned.
IMG_1465_563x422.jpg (35.07 KiB) Viewed 9056 times
Rotors cleaned.
Rotors cleaned.
IMG_1474_563x422.jpg (30.46 KiB) Viewed 9056 times
Looking through to the rotors.
Looking through to the rotors.
IMG_1467_563x422.jpg (23.34 KiB) Viewed 9056 times
Cleaned casing and rotors. Almost fully cleaned. Now for the dressing with light scotch brite.
Cleaned casing and rotors. Almost fully cleaned. Now for the dressing with light scotch brite.
IMG_1477_563x422.jpg (40.19 KiB) Viewed 9056 times
Book #188
Guy Croft
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Re: Volumex Rotor Condition

Post by Guy Croft »

looking good, well done!!

G
volumetrico
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Re: Volumex Rotor Condition

Post by volumetrico »

Great information there !
I think this has motivated me at a minimum to check the blow off/back fire valve is working correctly on my blower !
BTW Guy, you seem to be using very good quality cadmium plated fasteners. I am having trouble finding these. Can you recommend a source for quality nuts and bolts ?

Melo
GC #162
Guy Croft
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Re: Volumex Rotor Condition

Post by Guy Croft »

I stock a vast range of metric fasteners, including stainless capscrews, bright-zinc plated nyloc nuts & capscrews, bright-zinc plated-color passivated nuts and flat washers, zinc plated spring washers of various types, bright-zinc plated and plain studs.

None of the fasteners are cadmium plated, it weakens them.

Let me know which ones you need and I will give you the price.

G
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